General Discussion about timing of replacing stolen baskets

[WestsoundBT]

Topic for General discussion:

"When is it wise to replace a stolen basket right away versus intentionally withholding a replacement for a particular situation?"

I can, and we have all likely seen, both strategies used to various level of effectiveness.

*These are two of the viewpoints often cited, but its also recognized that there are a whole lot of in between strategies and a lot of individual circumstances* (short term use marking sticks or tone poles are assumed upon detection)

Viewpoint A: "Replace Quickly"

Replace quickly believes that the greater good occurs when the basket is quickly replaced, either by using an available club or organization owned basket, or by expediently ordering a replacement with installation pronto. This is in getting to a "course standard basket" as rapidly as humanly possible.

reasoning: Basket theft is an extension of vandalism, thus strategies that work for vandalism should apply to baskets. Replace quickly, keep a great service level, and stay outwardly strong and undeterred. This viewpoint usually is accompanied by internal or external searches for the culprit with good notice that they are "displeased" with the occurrence, yet wish to move on strongly to continue to offer the same public service level.

Viewpoint B: "Withold and Apply a Squeeze"

Withold replacement, (or withhold the course sometimes) to make a demonstrable point that something egregious happened.

Reasoning: Allow the hurt to be felt by the greater community to bring out a general sense of ire towards those who would steal or vandalize in this way. Sometimes, there is a thought that this will apply "leverage" in the peer network to chase out the culprit. (let's discuss true effectiveness of this) This viewpoint wishes to enlarge the event so that it can be a community consolidator and provide a chance to bring the community together to recognize the trust that was broken.




Discussion:

I feel there are great motivators for both viewpoints and both have the potential for a greater good if executed well.

This discussion is coming out of a local club's situation, yet as much as a plan for action in this case has been selected, we've been interested to seek what our greater NW community has found.

whats been effective
whats not been effective
what ultimately would you like to have done differently

As well as discuss the two ends of the spectrum when it comes to speed of replacement versus withholding.

****NOTE: It is not my intention to garner ideas for basket protection.****
For this discussion, it would be great to consider that "a basket has been stolen" and that means of protection were inconsequential.

Thanks for your time in participation on this topic.

[CarlitosBonitos]

Replace the basket immediatly, it is very unlikely that a disc golfer has stolen the basket, so the persons responsible will not be feeling any heat from the basket not being replaced. If it was a disc golfer who stole the basket than that person would likely have no morals and would learn nothing of this demostration of suffering.

I do get the idea of creating a topic of conversation that will ripple outwards and maybe eventually be heard by the guilty party, but I would place my bet on the guilty party being meth addicts (selling scrap metal) or mischevious teens who just want to feel the rush of getting away with something; then they likely have no idea what to do with teh basket so they throw it in a ravine within 5 miles of the course never to be seen again.

My $0.02

[Yardbird]

My initial $0.02 is that it was a disc golfer with low morals.

There isn't really enough metal (steel) to make any money off the selling a basket for scrap. Most baskets that are stolen require a fair amount of work to cut the lock and carry to the get away vehicle.

Some degree of waiting to replace the basket is needed.

Week, month, or more (depending on available resources to acquire a replacement).

A tone pole will work just fine for a short term corrective action to make the hole playable.

Maybe the players that feel that a stolen basket should be replaced immediately (within two weeks) can offer up their portable discatcher basket to leave at the course until funds are raised for a new permanent basket.

[WestsoundBT]

Is it being said that our best estimate of who the perpetrator may be (golfer v non golfer) may influence the replacement strategy in any given circumstance?

What if we don't really have a clue? or our instincts are off?


(just aiding general discussion beyond this case )

[olydiscgolf]

I think the idea of a non disc golfer stealing a basket is pretty far fetched. I'm not saying it can't happen, but the odds are against it. Scrap metal is going for about $150 per ton. Even the most hard up tweekers can find an easier way to get their metal fix.


I would wait a while before replacing the basket. I would post signs at the kiosk offering a reward for its return and prosecution of the thief. We are still a small enough (Disc Golf) community, that when something like this happens, somebody knows about it. If nothing else, it will raise awareness of the situation.

Sorry for your loss! Its a real downer when you bust your butt for a club and course and somebody helps themselves to your goods.

[General Scales]

Wait to replace it for sure. It may suck because you are making innocent people suffer for somebody's jack-ass actions but it makes the community fight to get the basket back. Every time I hear that a basket has been stolen, I die a little more inside.

The only issue with waiting to replace a basket is the fact that it turns golfers into witch hunters.

[Scott]

I've never bought into the theory that basket theives are metal hunters. If that were the case, why do they only take one at a time?

[CarlitosBonitos]

they were actually going to get anything for it, I said Meth addicts who dont have reason or logic would steal a basket as it is made out of metal and they knwo you cna get money for metal... only later would they realize they are not getting anything... further I would think it would be more likely it was kids on summer break in the park after dark and thought it owuld be cool to fu*k with somehting and then they arent sure what to do with it so it gets stached in a remot locale never to be seen again... I doubt these kids have a vendetta against disc golfers so they provbably wont take any more, so replace the basket, if it keeps happening then change your strategy.

[jeffmonty]

I don't think metal thieves took it because by cutting the lock, they easily could have grabbed a few more, why just one? Could be kids. I'm going with non-local disc golfer.

As far as time frame for replacement, I say wait a few months. Let the DG community feel the downside of this type of behavior, thus raising awareness to active prevention. Chris, good idea to offer a reward, also.

Also, by waiting a few months, you may be able to boost your fund-raising to replace said basket. In that amount of time you should be able to throw a fund-raiser or two without doing too much immediate damage to the club funds, which are always limited.

[Discgolfingkilmers]

I think not replacing them right away is best and I even pulled all baskets off course so everyone knew about it ( might not again but 4 were stolen had to make a point)

raising money to replace is the way to get players pro-active because a lot of players have no idea of what it takes to replace a basket (they were all in when they started playing golf)

We never got any info on the baskets stolen from steily even with a reward, but TODD BATES was sucessful at riverside with getting those 6 back.

ALL BASKETS ON OUR COUSES NEED TO BE MARKED SO IT CAN BE IDENIFED .How can you say that is your basket when we all have the same baskets (chainstar or innova)

PCDGPA has collars for sale to prevent lock cutting. had to say it