Advanced Masters to Intermediate

[Scotty B]

I noticed that some Advanced Masters play some tournies in the intermediate what is the purpose of this when it looks like there is plenty of room in the Masters division why not leave that spot open for up and coming players to experience the tourny life. I believe once you have played a tourny as an advanced player it is up to you to get better and play at the level of the competition win or lose I would like to hear what others think of this.

[Mikk]

Hey not to be "that guy" but can you please work on correct punctuation??
To comment on your question, maybe the field competition is seen as too tough? Or mabe its a new course to them, so they would go to a lower field of players?? I have done this due to a back injury, however I've never won anything so it doesn't matter what level I register in.

[Scotty B]

I will work on that when you spell maybe correctly just kidding. I don't think it is level of play since the RCO and BSF are two of the tournies they are playing MM1.

[Bruce]

Neither of which offer intermediate divisions though, right?

[Scotty B]

You are correct but why move down when you are willing to play MM1 on the big stage.

[Jreynolds]

They might be playing MM1 "on the big stage" just to get in on the experience of the big stage, or just for the players pack (i know the BSF has an AMAZING REP about their players pack)... I know plenty of intermediate level players that tried to get into the BSF... Heck, I even know a Rec player that was willing to play MA1, just to play in the BSF.

[Bullseye]

Originally Posted by Scotty B

I noticed that some Advanced Masters play some tournies in the intermediate what is the purpose of this when it looks like there is plenty of room in the Masters division why not leave that spot open for up and coming players to experience the tourny life. I believe once you have played a tourny as an advanced player it is up to you to get better and play at the level of the competition win or lose I would like to hear what others think of this.

Here are two events (Great Northwest Open & Disc-Go-Ball) where all divisions played the same layouts in "nearly" the same conditions. It appears that MM1 players are closer in scoring to MA2 players than they are to MA1 players. Seems like a good fit to me, and the rules certainly permit them to play there.

-----MM1---MA2---MA1
GNO--162---159---155---Division winner - Total strokes
DGB--172---176---159---Division winner - Total strokes

[Scotty B]

I'm not disagreeing with you all on that it is allowed but just more curious why not stay in that MM1 division to play against the better competition. It also leaves open spots for new players to gain valuable experience at the intermediate level.

[Bullseye]

Originally Posted by Scotty B

I'm not disagreeing with you all on that it is allowed but just more curious why not stay in that MM1 division to play against the better competition. It also leaves open spots for new players to gain valuable experience at the intermediate level.

Look at the scores. Its not necessarily better competition in MM1. As for the experience issue. Sure, it is good to get good tournament experience, but just because someone is qualified to play masters they cannot be forced to play masters. It is their money, and they can sign up for any division they able to play within the rules. I could also argue that the Intermediate player could have signed up first if it was that important to him.

I think your argument seems more emotional than it is logical.

[Jreynolds]

I can think of at least 1 event, recently (the Windy River Open), where the Adv Masters winner would not have made the top 10 in Int... Just because it is called Advanced Masters, doesn't mean the players are the normal "Advanced" level, it is the lowest age protected bracket. Obviously at the Windy, the Adv Masters players were not Advanced level players, actually most were barely Int. level

[LegoRules]

Originally Posted by Jreynolds

I can think of at least 1 event, recently (the Windy River Open), where the Adv Masters winner would not have made the top 10 in Int... Just because it is called Advanced Masters, doesn't mean the players are the normal "Advanced" level, it is the lowest age protected bracket. Obviously at the Windy, the Adv Masters players were not Advanced level players, actually most were barely Int. level

I agree advanced masters really should be called amateur masters because anyone who is a amateur can play in that division if they are over 40 there are no ratings requirements, or caps as long as a player is classified as an amateur. For example of the players who are registered for Am Worlds the lowest rated player is 801 & the highest is 975 on the men's side, and 655 is the lowest & 875 is the highest on the women's side. I don't think a player who is rated 801 would be considered an advanced man, and a player who is rated 655 an advanced woman.


Cindy

[Chuck Kennedy]

The PDGA agrees that the top end of Advanced Masters are (or should be) equivalent to Intermediate players. The ratings break for older pros to enter Advanced Masters is under 935, the same break the divides Advanced from Intermediate. Advanced Masters with ratings over 935 should really be considering entering Pro Master. But these days it's more likey there are more than enough players for an Advanced Masters division than Pro Masters in C-tiers.

[Scott]

I played Advanced Masters for a couple of years, usually right around the middle of the pack. When my game started going in the wrong direction, I moved to Int to re-evaluate my game and sort of recharge my batteries. I found that playing near the top card in Int put me around better players (opposed to playing the bottom card in MM1).

[Yardbird]

Sure, the Intermediate and Advanced Master divisions are about the same skill set, but there is more to the big picture. It's all about the tourney experience, right?

The Advanced Master division players are most likely seasoned disc golfers that lack the skills to compete in the Advanced Open division, but they know the rules, have proper etiquette, and are playing to have fun and to curb their competitive drive at a course that has been groomed for the tourney.

The Intermediate division players on the other hand, are mainly new to the competitive scene/sport and are still learning the game (skills and etiquette) and have the potential to play in the Advanced division once their game improves (not the case for the majority of the Masters division players).

Personally, I was looking forward the time when I turned 40 and could start to play in the Pro Masters division, but now after 12+ years of playing and promoting the sport of disc golf (not to mention a family and real job), I have realized and know that I don't have the time or mind set that it takes to compete at the professional level and will most likely stay an amatuer player for life.

I turned 40 this year, so watch out Advanced Masters players.

[Bullseye]

Originally Posted by Yardbird

Sure, the Intermediate and Advanced Master divisions are about the same skill set, but there is more to the big picture. It's all about the tourney experience, right?

The Advanced Master division players are most likely seasoned disc golfers that lack the skills to compete in the Advanced Open division, but they know the rules, have proper etiquette, and are playing to have fun and to curb their competitive drive at a course that has been groomed for the tourney.

The Intermediate division players on the other hand, are mainly new to the competitive scene/sport and are still learning the game (skills and etiquette) and have the potential to play in the Advanced division once their game improves (not the case for the majority of the Masters division players).

Personally, I was looking forward the time when I turned 40 and could start to play in the Pro Masters division, but now after 12+ years of playing and promoting the sport of disc golf (not to mention a family and real job), I have realized and know that I don't have the time or mind set that it takes to compete at the professional level and will most likely stay an amatuer player for life.

I turned 40 this year, so watch out Advanced Masters players.

Your post makes a great argument as to why a few Advanced Masters in MA2 can do quite a bit to help out MA2 players. They can show some of the newer guys the rules of the road without totally crushing their pride at the same time

[Yardbird]

Bullseye,

Point taken, but I do that during casual rounds and fun events.

At PDGA tournies, I want to be able to come, play, and enjoy the experience without having to explain basic rules and etiquette to the players that should already know them. It's a distraction that experienced players shouldn't have to deal with while trying to play their best. I did my time in Intermediate to learn proper etiquette and the other quirks that go with competitive events.

[Bullseye]

Originally Posted by Yardbird

Bullseye,

Point taken, but I do that during casual rounds and fun events.

At PDGA tournies, I want to be able to come, play, and enjoy the experience without having to explain basic rules and etiquette to the players that should already know them. It's a distraction that experienced players shouldn't have to deal with while trying to play their best. I did my time in Intermediate to learn proper etiquette and the other quirks that go with competitive events.

Understood. Clearly you're not the type of player Scotty B was concerned about. You've moved on from MA2...

I guess my whole point in this thread was that there are some players who simply want to be competitive in whatever division they choose to play in, and why should we limit their options.

Bottom line: It is pretty hard to please everyone when everyone has different goals, objectives and expectations. Hopefully Scotty B doesn't think I was just being combative, its just that as both a player and a tournament director I have a different outlook on some issues. No disrespect intended at all.

[CMC206]

I started playing around 92. I played 1 tournament the Fort Steilecoom Open and got my PDGA #12298. I then only really played once a year for a Thanksgiving day skins. This will be my 3rd season back. I have played a lot of tourneys now and I have bounced in between these two divisions a lot. I find myself either dead last in advanced masters or in the middle of Int. I know I'm not sandbagging at all. For me it also depends on if I have friends playing the same tournament I will play in their division to get the chance to be on a card. In the case of the BSF it's a privledge of age because I can kind of get 2 names in the hat. I'm planning on moving up next year. I have only 1 sanctioned win and it was at a very small 20 person event. I'm on the hunt this year but if it doesnt happen I'm going to move up anyway. My Rating for now is 854.

[SMOKIN JOE]

I sometimes play MA2. One reason is to be in a certain pool with other people. Sometimes to play in a bigger field with more people near my own rating. Sometimes to get away from people with to high of ratings. I've also passed up on MA2 because I didn't want to be the highest rated MA2 in the field. Sign up for whatever division you qualify for and just have fun. For me just playing well gives me the most enjoyment. I played my best rated golf in the worlds a couple of years ago. Didn't make the cut. Played mostly against higher ranking players. Had the time of my life.

[EnigmaSquad]

Originally Posted by CMC206

I started playing around 92. .

Doesn't this put you in the Legend Category?