Gripes about CHAINBANGERZ

[Wes Hansen]

I am truly sorry that you felt that my statement was derisive.
I repeat that I did not say a fundraiser for a person was bad. Ever.

I hope this thread returns to its previously more interesting discussion.

Having reread a lot of this thread I think everything is Sillybizz's fault. He's a known troublemaker. Not to mention I believe he openly confessed to robbing Washington of needed tax revenue.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by emmarose

maybe not venemous, but came across as pretty derisive...

Thanks Emma for saying it better than I did.

[cefire]

Yeah, totally agree Scott - its all above board and folks are free to play as they wish. My personal preference is that if we are fundraising, we do so for food banks, course needs, club needs, or other non-profit missions. IMO, these seem like much higher priority than sending someone to worlds - when I've gone to worlds or usdgc etc. I've always paid for it and wouldn't have accepted donations even if offered but totally personal preference.

P.S. - Sounds like Sheila and I will be running a charity PDGA event this summer for a women's rights non-profit yet to be determined - Get yer blizzards ready, cause the Sudoku showdown is gonna be back!

[sillybizz]

Originally Posted by Wes Hansen

Having reread a lot of this thread I think everything is Sillybizz's fault. He's a known troublemaker. Not to mention I believe he openly confessed to robbing Washington of needed tax revenue.

You sir are on Dan Savage's list! Watch yourself Captain America!

P.S. I'm glad you picked an avatar, I remember people on here better by avatars than names.

[TYVEK]

Originally Posted by Scott

I don't understand all of the venom surrounding a fundraiser to cover expenses for a trip to Worlds. I don't see a problem with it as long as she is upfront about what she's raising money for. People can choose to support her by whether or not they attend the event. By the sounds of it, they are. Don't like it? Fine - you can choose not to go. But I certainly don't begrudge her for trying. Hell, I was thinking about running a similar event for a similar purpose in the next year or so.

And it's not like this is unprecedented. Wasn't there a fundraiser at Milo to send someone to USDGC a couple of years ago?

I totally agree, a few years ago down here in olympia we held a fundraiser to send Chandler Fry to worlds and NO ONE complained about that.
i think local fundraiser tournaments for a local to the region that has the potential to do well at worlds is great.

[cefire]

Why is it great? (Was it better than holding a fundraiser for new tee signs at Steily or for improvements at the oly course?)

[sillybizz]

Originally Posted by cefire

Why is it great? (Was it better than holding a fundraiser for new tee signs at Steily or for improvements at the oly course?)

Exactly. I would be much more willing to play and donate my time and money to something that actually benefits the course and I'm even more willing to do all of those things when it's done for a charity.

[Matt B.]

Originally Posted by Scott

I don't understand all of the venom surrounding a fundraiser to cover expenses for a trip to Worlds. I don't see a problem with it as long as she is upfront about what she's raising money for. People can choose to support her by whether or not they attend the event. By the sounds of it, they are. Don't like it? Fine - you can choose not to go. But I certainly don't begrudge her for trying. Hell, I was thinking about running a similar event for a similar purpose in the next year or so.

And it's not like this is unprecedented. Wasn't there a fundraiser at Milo to send someone to USDGC a couple of years ago?

I'm guessing the amount of venom unleashed by the original poster has a lot to do with the subsequent tone of the thread.

[TYVEK]

Originally Posted by cefire

Why is it great? (Was it better than holding a fundraiser for new tee signs at Steily or for improvements at the oly course?)

why is it great?! you really have to ask that? Not everybody can afford to go to worlds. if there is somebody that has the potential to do well at worlds and cant afford to go, why wouldnt the disc golf community gather around to help them out so they can represent our region???

its not just about the "community" its about the individuals that make up that community as well. its best not to lose sight of that.

[SPIDER-DAN]

Its not like every fundraiser that is scheduled is for someone to go to worlds.......it does not happen that often so why not support it............i certainly am.

Team disc golf was already established why the event(s) was happening and it was clearing stated by chris, sam and others. Im sure if they said we are going to play 7 events and the money raised was going to go to one individual it most certainly would not set well. This is one fundraiser one time just like it was done for other pro players in the past without any complaints...... So why is there such a bitch session now........ Maybe some of you should set your extreme prejudices aside and practice what you are preaching.

Just because someone expresses a concern on the forum does not necessary mean they deserve a backlash. Maybe we all (myself included) should try to be more proactive and not so reactive. Im sure chainbangerz do alot of good things for disc golf and the lakewood park just as chris, sam, morgan and others have done with team disc golf. Mark kilmer has done so much for disc golf that most of you may not even know and continues to do so. There are so many other people to mention, but i am sure you get the picture.

It all started with a concern about the lost and found policy and that it may be encourging some inappropiate behavior by individuals for porfit. Just maybe the concern was to re-evaluate the policy to see if there was a way to stop the hoarding of lost discs, lost discs from other courses that have drop boxes making there way up to chainbangerz and other unethical actions by other disc golfers. Im sure the initial intent of the program had the best interest of the players in ming by getting thier lost discs back to them, but maybe there is a flaw. I dont know....... Just putting it out there.

I just hoping my post will end this thread so we can get back on track and support our clubs, support other players and tactfully list concerns without the heavy load of reactive negative comments. God knows i will also try hard myself....... We are after all human.

[yarmark]

ce dan is the man....

Fundraising is a bad thing? Really? Wtf? unless it directly benefits you and your course. Oh! ok! that makes sense. yep

unfortunately, i dont know many disc golfers who are financially well off.
Not every talented proffessional athelete has the financial means to be able to attend, and compete, in an event such as the USDGC. not all of them are tourring pros. most have a full time job and a family. Not to mention a fat dog on the couch.

i want to support the best golfers that Wa has to offer. I want our reps to do well at worlds.
JESSIE Arron Holley Bjorrrno BIG DAWG and all others
Peace of Mind is invaluble during copetition. to help them in any way, makes me feel good!
Everyone needs help on their climb to the top!!!!

To support or not support an event is your choice. But to be outspoken against fundraising speaks to the level of your intelligence and your outlook on the future of this sport. It also leads me to believe you never excelled in any individual or team sport, at a level above high school. Top level athletics, in any sport, at any age, is not cheap!

I cant believe people actually think this way.

I have personally takin part in over 500 fundraising event over the years. Most of which were to help send my baseball team, or a friends baseball team, to a natioal event ( my teams played at least 4 nat. events every year for 8+ years). To send an entire team anywhere takes a sh**ton of $.
Everyone works together. some give time and energy. some give money. others give their support in any way they can. We all felt a sense of togetherness when greatness was achieved.
I know i will SMILE when i hear Jessie finnishes top 25 in the WORLD!!! AGAIN!!!!!!
WHHHHOOORRRRDDDDDAYYYYYYYY if they aint b knowin, they will soon enough

You never got a car wash to send the kids to nationals?
I have two friends right now, trying to help raise money. One, to get their daughter to nationals for softball, and one whos son is on a tourring baseball team.
i will gladly do what i can to help.
but...... it doesn't help MY course hahahha

would you protest the "Car wash" to send an individual, or team to nationals?
i won't support you. your family should be able to pay for you. otherwise you just shouldn't play.
what about the fundraisers for our Olympic competitors. Every two years we hear wonderful stories of communities working together to send a local to Bejing( or wherever) to rep USA.
That is what its about.
its not a life or death situation, but it is a life changing experience.
we should all feel a sense of accomplishment when those we know, love, and support, achieve greatness.
When they do well, our sport does well (and i get my $ back just kidding)

I remember the Chandler Fry event, and the Crabtree event. No outspoken haters there!!!!!!
And why should there be any?
I will support all of them again this year

spport your local course, players, tournaments, and DISC GOLF!

quit b#tchn and help better the sport

[Simmeltron]

Originally Posted by yarmark

support your local course, players, tournaments, and DISC GOLF!

quit b#tchn and help better the sport

Sounds good to me!!

[cefire]

I think you perhaps miss my point, fundraising for an individual is perfectly fine, but let us recognize that it is for one person (am I missing something in making this assumption?). No venom here, I hope everyone who goes does awesome at worlds and has a fun time! As I stated (and perhaps you missed) in my previous post, for me this is a question of priorities. My personal priorities are for course repair and improvement, not necessarily my own course (as I very rarely play Steili/Oly, again mentioned in my post, but sounds like you missed this as well), but ANY course... These priorities take precedence over funding vacations for others or for myself - I understand the reasoning behind it, but I strongly feel we (all of Washington/Oregon) have far greater needs than sending a 'representative' to some tournament.

Several of the recent tournaments I've run, I've added a sign-up requirement of attending at least ONE work party in the previous entire year, or run a tournament, or doubles, or pretty much ANYTHING that would benefit a cause larger than oneself. You can imagine how OP and many others fared on this criterion. I guess I miss the part where 'representing' well at a tournament keeps the courses clean and well-kempt...

Fortunately, a small and dedicated group of individuals continue to labor behind the scenes to get the real work done.

P.S. - Starter on my varsity soccer and tennis teams in college (these are team sports no?), multiple qualifications for USDGC (didn't have the $$, instead of fundraising for myself, fundraised for new baskets at Hawk Hollow - still satisfied with this choice ), last year put up $2,000 to keep SeaTac in the ground, ran 20+ tournaments in Seattle over 2 years living there (including annual fundraisers for NW Harvest Food Bank, fundraisers for SeaTac and Lakewood improvements, and a scorepoint scoreboard since no TD's in the area had access to one) I guess it is just sour grapes eh, or shall I continue...?

Now I see that I should have focused more on my 'climb to the top' and griping about payouts rather than trying to help out the larger community of golfers - still haven't learned my lesson though, we'll be TD'ing two more PDGA tourneys this summer - hope y'all can come, or boycott, whatever you please

[jeffmonty]

I've read with interest both sides of this debate. Most have stated their side more elegantly than I could.
If I had a friend trying to get to Worlds, I would want to try to help them out. If it was someone I didn't know, not so much.

That said, I have to support cefire's point of view, for the OVERALL good of the sport. Clubs will always have problems funding course improvements, and we all hear complaints of poor teepads, lack of signage, stolen baskets, never mind trying to fund new courses.
I wish the lady well. I'm sure she'll make it to Worlds, no problem.

Also, cefire, thanks for all you've done!!

[SPIDER-DAN]

Seriously?

I have attended fundraisers to help Lakewood and Seatac. I have donated quite a few $$$ of my own and winnings to purchase baskets at several different courses and raissed $$$ from disc sales from my own personal stash to help courses and clubs.

I have also donated $$$ and discs to help someone go to worlds or the USDGC. Why cant both be done? Can anyone really tell me that? I would really like to hear your reasons..........cause all I am hearing is one sided, narrow-minded excuses.

Like I said before.........it is one fundraiser to help someone have a good time at worlds. Then we as a whole can continue to go back and hold fundraisers for the course...........or is that too much to ask?

[cefire]

I'd be more than happy to help out with a fundraiser for you Dan, Keith, Rideout, Gilberts, or Kilmer (maybe even Jub ), or any of the other awesome folks in the area who are putting in way more than their fair share, cheers to you all!!!



I'm less inclined to do so for 'do-nothings' who complain that the 'do-ers' aren't 'do-ing' enough for them... (e.g., post #1 )




P.S. - getting back to the original topic, a quick look shows that there was $120 total in the pro purse the day in question, how is $80 for first not awesome? Is it simply the comparison when the whole purse was paid out to first place in the previous month (as in the PDGA payout guidelines for 4 players)?

Anyone who has run PDGA tournaments with small fields understands this requirement for pro fields, I think:
If 4 or less, winner take all.
If 5 or more, payout to two places.

Perhaps I'm missing something, or perhaps PDGA TD guidelines and/or math are not a strong suit...or maybe there is a massive conspiracy underfoot!

[LJ Jubner]

Originally Posted by cefire

I'd be more than happy to help out with a fundraiser for you Dan, Keith, Rideout, Gilberts, or Kilmer (maybe even Jub ), or any of the other awesome folks in the area who are putting in way more than their fair share, cheers to you all!!!
...

Thanks Andrew
I know you run quality events and have led with your heart here. And I know you have your doubts with some of the decisions made. Sheila and a weed eater is still a fond memory.

I figured out why this topic is so important, It shows we (as a state) need to discuss and heaven forbid coordinate all our efforts towards our common goal. I seriously doubt we are too far apart on any subject

Why else would the tone be so confrontational?
Because everyone is frustrated. Keith (et al) has one agenda, same with Mark and I and Jessie spoke for the players. Then there are the silent two groups whos agendas are undeclared but seem pretty obvious.

IMNSHO biggest point of confusion
The line between Bangerz the club and Bangerz the Business

[cefire]

Originally Posted by LJ Jubner

Keith (et al) has one agenda, same with Mark and I and Jessie spoke for the players. Then there are the silent two groups whos agendas are undeclared but seem pretty obvious.

IMNSHO biggest point of confusion
The line between Bangerz the club and Bangerz the Business

First off, thanks Jub

I'm still not getting the whole different agendas thing; 'players' versus who exactly? Am I a 'player' or in one of the other groups because I thought I was a player too!?! Silent groups? We all might need to be more clear about that going forward.

Regarding the payout (non-)issue (see above post); we might want to bring it up with PDGA for more flexibility in the payout structure, if that is what we want, and then propose solutions for how to payout in a 4 person field. I'm fine with the way PDGA has it set up at the moment and if anything, I'd be happy to pay 2/4 with a smaller, fatter payout rather than winner take all in that scenario.

And yep, I advocated strongly at the time for different names for club/shop for this reason among others

P.S. - What does IMNSHO mean?

I guess I've said what I had to say about this whole deal - just PM me if you have a question and see y'all this summer!

[LJ Jubner]

Originally Posted by cefire

First off, thanks Jub

I'm still not getting the whole different agendas thing; 'players' versus who exactly? Am I a 'player' or in one of the other groups because I thought I was a player too!?! Silent groups? We all might need to be more clear about that going forward.

Agenda might be to harsh of a word for the players viewpoint (yes you are a player just like me your just much better)
Silent Groups are the Tri Cities club (not to be confused with the Columbia River Club) and the Bud Pell. Peninsula group. We are working with some West Sounders to help bridge thsi gap.

[quote=cefire;118980]P.S. - What does IMNSHO mean?QUOTE]
In My Not So Humble Opinion

[PuttsRrad]

awesome