Master and Grandmaster divisions for the Oregon State DG Championships,

[Flatroc]

Hey Jeff,
Any chance (besides trying to play better than a lot of pro players half our age ) that you are going to make this possible for some of us old diehards?
I know this has been brought up before but speaking for myself and prolly a bunch of others, I don't think it's fair to not let (except by way of qualifications) some of the older folks have a chance to play. Just because they got old and can't keep up with all of today's young pros, IMO, shouldn't mean they don't get to compete for a State Championship.
A lot of these ol'timers have discovered, built and nurtured this cool sport and feel left out.
FWIW, I did research and have yet to find any other State Championships who didn't honor their old fellers.
You know that I know and respect all the great things you've done and continue to do for the sport we both love.
Thanks Jeff,
Yoseman
4438

[Bullseye]

Originally Posted by Flatroc

Hey Jeff,
Any chance (besides trying to play better than a lot of pro players half our age ) that you are going to make this possible for some of us old diehards?
I know this has been brought up before but speaking for myself and prolly a bunch of others, I don't think it's fair to not let (except by way of qualifications) some of the older folks have a chance to play. Just because they got old and can't keep up with all of today's young pros, IMO, shouldn't mean they don't get to compete for a State Championship.
A lot of these ol'timers have discovered, built and nurtured this cool sport and feel left out.
FWIW, I did research and have yet to find any other State Championships who didn't honor their old fellers.
You know that I know and respect all the great things you've done and continue to do for the sport we both love.
Thanks Jeff,
Yoseman
4438

You're killing me Yose. Here is my dilemma. As it stands right now I have 72 slots for players.

4 Pro Women
4 Adv Women
32 Pro Men
32 Adv Men

If I start adding divisions it takes away from the existing divisions. Then where do I draw the line? If I add Pro Masters, do I add Pro Grandmasters as well? Do I also add Adv Masters? Then what about Adv Grandmasters? You see where that leads me?

I could end up with something like this:
24 Pro Men
4 Pro Women
4 Pro Masters
4 Pro Grandmasters
24 Adv Men
4 Adv Women
4 Adv. Masters
4 Adv. Grandmasters

Sadly, aside from allowing more people to play, (which admittedly is not a bad thing) I don't think it improves the event much, if at all. My original concept for this event was to put on an event where the required level of play rivaled even the USDGC; an event where every shot is a knee-knocker. The USDGC is one single division, and I felt that was a little too harsh for this area, so I allowed women's divisions and Ams. I give you a little and you always want MORE!

I will say this much, if I do tweak the event to include any additional divisions this year, it would probably be to simply allow Pro and Adv. Masters Divisions. Perhaps if it all worked out I could visit the possibility of GMs next year.

Its really just matter of my original vision for the event, and overall capacity.

[Sam]

I like the idea of adding a Pro Masters and an Advanced Masters division to this...

[Bullseye]

Originally Posted by Sam

I like the idea of adding a Pro Masters and an Advanced Masters division to this...

Official Rating cap for Adv Masters = SamsCurrentRating-1

[Jeff Hemmerling]

Originally Posted by Bullseye

Official Rating cap for Adv Masters = SamsCurrentRating-1

+1

[Flatroc]

Originally Posted by Bullseye

You're killing me Yose. Here is my dilemma. As it stands right now I have 72 slots for players.

4 Pro Women
4 Adv Women
32 Pro Men
32 Adv Men

If I start adding divisions it takes away from the existing divisions. Then where do I draw the line? If I add Pro Masters, do I add Pro Grandmasters as well? Do I also add Adv Masters? Then what about Adv Grandmasters? You see where that leads me?

I could end up with something like this:
24 Pro Men
4 Pro Women
4 Pro Masters
4 Pro Grandmasters
24 Adv Men
4 Adv Women
4 Adv. Masters
4 Adv. Grandmasters

Sadly, aside from allowing more people to play, (which admittedly is not a bad thing) I don't think it improves the event much, if at all. My original concept for this event was to put on an event where the required level of play rivaled even the USDGC; an event where every shot is a knee-knocker. The USDGC is one single division, and I felt that was a little too harsh for this area, so I allowed women's divisions and Ams. I give you a little and you always want MORE!

I will say this much, if I do tweak the event to include any additional divisions this year, it would probably be to simply allow Pro and Adv. Masters Divisions. Perhaps if it all worked out I could visit the possibility of GMs next year.

Its really just matter of my original vision for the event, and overall capacity.

Well,
IF there were 2 courses being used, you could have at least 144.
I think every division that the PDGA recognizes should be honored at a State Championship and that said event should be open to the whole state.

[Wes Hansen]

Yose makes lots of sense. It would be a great thing if there was an ADV GM division!

[Bullseye]

Guys, with all due respect, I feel like you are completely ignoring my original concept for this tournament. I'm sorry if we don't see eye to eye on this, but my intent was to provide a very challenging course and have it played by the best Pro and Am players in the state. I wanted players who qualified to experience something like the USDGC here in Oregon.

I feel like I have accomplished that and I would like to continue to improve the event, but I'm not so sure adding more people is the answer. Today, I sat here trying to justify adding the two Masters divisions only to see that even that isn't enough to appease you guys.

As for adding another course, that is not going to happen... the event IS that course.

I hope you all understand.

[Wes Hansen]

I was only jumping on Yose's bandwagon because I keep getting older.
I'm also fairly sure I'll never get to play the event and that kind of sucks...
not because of how you set it up, but because I'm not really Championship material.
Besides, you know that and I figured you knew I was just ribbing you....
unless you go with 144 players... then I want in....somehow.

[Flatroc]

Originally Posted by Bullseye

Guys, with all due respect, I feel like you are completely ignoring my original concept for this tournament. I'm sorry if we don't see eye to eye on this, but my intent was to provide a very challenging course and have it played by the best Pro and Am players in the state. I wanted players who qualified to experience something like the USDGC here in Oregon.

I feel like I have accomplished that and I would like to continue to improve the event, but I'm not so sure adding more people is the answer. Today, I sat here trying to justify adding the two Masters divisions only to see that even that isn't enough to appease you guys.

As for adding another course, that is not going to happen... the event IS that course.

I hope you all understand.

Jeff,
I do understand. It's rather simple.
It's your concept and you're the TD.
I really have never ignored anything you have to say as I respect you and your goals.
BUT, I do disagree with parts of your concept.
As far as getting the best in the state, you'll get most, but there are a lot of very good dger's that won't/can't attend these qualifiers. Also, I'd figure there would be some that made the events but didn't qualify.
I think the only way to find the best in the state is to have an open shootout!
Why are you so opposed to having two or more courses?
Most of us have never been or prolly never will experience the USDGC, so IMO that point is moot.
You have several challenging courses in your area that would require a champion to play his best if he wants the gold.
It seems to me if you make this gig like the USDGC stuff, you're narrowing it down to who is the smartest dger in the state.
Also, I never much cared to be the appease-ee.
I make part of my living being an appease-er.
Yose

[Matt B.]

Originally Posted by Bullseye

Guys, with all due respect, I feel like you are completely ignoring my original concept for this tournament. I'm sorry if we don't see eye to eye on this, but my intent was to provide a very challenging course and have it played by the best Pro and Am players in the state. I wanted players who qualified to experience something like the USDGC here in Oregon.

I feel like I have accomplished that and I would like to continue to improve the event, but I'm not so sure adding more people is the answer. Today, I sat here trying to justify adding the two Masters divisions only to see that even that isn't enough to appease you guys.

As for adding another course, that is not going to happen... the event IS that course.

I hope you all understand.

You're good Jeff, you don't need to ask for understanding. It's a cool event and people appreciate it, but people always want more. The reality is that not every event can be every thing to all people. Add more courses, add more divisions, make it available to everyone who doesn't have the time or money or determination to make it to a qualifier....blah, blah, blah.

It's a cool concept and a cool event and you do it for love of the game and it takes a ton of your time and you're the goddamn TD and you can do what you want, and call it what you want, and run it how you want.

Hey- add another course, no big deal, right? BAH!

Now about that MPM division....Just kidding (not really). I'm going to try and qualify this year to get my butt kicked by the players and the course.

[bryan_luoma]

The Trojan event that takes place in September is an awesome concept, albeit a bit unconventional for a "State Championships".

I think this is good dialogue to have for disc golf in the state of Oregon. In no way should this discussion take away from the effort, dedication, and pure awesomeness of this event.

From my perspective, it sounds like the only quandary with ORDGC is the name of the event? Bueller?

PMs and PGs want a shot at the "state title" too, understandably. What about PSs and PLs? You can see where this is going (PE, A2, J1, F*)

The concept of state championships, regional championships, national championships, and world championships for the sport of disc golf is different than other sports. Does the PDGA care about standardizing these events? Do golfers care, maybe?

Ultimately, power to the TD, IMO.

[Matt B.]

Originally Posted by bryan_luoma

The Trojan event that takes place in September is an awesome concept, albeit a bit unconventional for a "State Championships".

I think this is good dialogue to have for disc golf in the state of Oregon. In no way should this discussion take away from the effort, dedication, and pure awesomeness of this event.

From my perspective, it sounds like the only quandary with ORDGC is the name of the event? Bueller?

PMs and PGs want a shot at the "state title" too, understandably. What about PSs and PLs? You can see where this is going (PE, A2, J1, F*)

The concept of state championships, regional championships, national championships, and world championships for the sport of disc golf is different than other sports. Does the PDGA care about standardizing these events? Do golfers care, maybe?

Ultimately, power to the TD, IMO.

This event is modeled after the USDGC, not other state championships, so maybe it is just a semantics thing with the name. There are no age based divisions at the USDGC, nor is everyone going to be able to have a chance to qualify.

If someone wants to set up an Oregon "State Championship" they could do it I suppose, can't see why not. Ultimately, the event and the concept are the property of the TD and the people who work to put it on. There is no larger sanctioning body in the state saying what you could call it or who gets to play. Jeff has pretty clearly laid out the concept, the target demographic of players, and the goals. Anyone can try to qualify at several events over several months. Try being the operative word. It's an open competition.

[emmarose]

Originally Posted by Matt B.

This event is modeled after the USDGC, not other state championships, so maybe it is just a semantics thing with the name. There are no age based divisions at the USDGC, nor is everyone going to be able to have a chance to qualify.

If someone wants to set up an Oregon "State Championship" they could do it I suppose, can't see why not. Ultimately, the event and the concept are the property of the TD and the people who work to put it on. There is no larger sanctioning body in the state saying what you could call it or who gets to play. Jeff has pretty clearly laid out the concept, the target demographic of players, and the goals. Anyone can try to qualify at several events over several months. Try being the operative word. It's an open competition.

amen sing it on the mountain brother matt.

[bryan_luoma]

Originally Posted by Matt B.

This event is modeled after the USDGC, not other state championships, so maybe it is just a semantics thing with the name. There are no age based divisions at the USDGC, nor is everyone going to be able to have a chance to qualify.

If someone wants to set up an Oregon "State Championship" they could do it I suppose, can't see why not. Ultimately, the event and the concept are the property of the TD and the people who work to put it on. There is no larger sanctioning body in the state saying what you could call it or who gets to play. Jeff has pretty clearly laid out the concept, the target demographic of players, and the goals. Anyone can try to qualify at several events over several months. Try being the operative word. It's an open competition.

Thanks Matt, very well articulated. Makes perfect sense.

I am surprised that Oregon does not have a "state championships". I guess it's just another event anyhow. Carry on.

BTW, I'll be looking for a caddy for ORDGC3.

[dooley]

Originally Posted by Bullseye

Guys, with all due respect, I feel like you are completely ignoring my original concept for this tournament. I'm sorry if we don't see eye to eye on this, but my intent was to provide a very challenging course and have it played by the best Pro and Am players in the state. I wanted players who qualified to experience something like the USDGC here in Oregon.

I feel like I have accomplished that and I would like to continue to improve the event, but I'm not so sure adding more people is the answer. Today, I sat here trying to justify adding the two Masters divisions only to see that even that isn't enough to appease you guys.

As for adding another course, that is not going to happen... the event IS that course.

I hope you all understand.

i am also one of those who was disapointed that the osdgc did not include a masters division at all and therefore did not attempt to qualify...and would have if i participated. But i would have to stand behind jeff on this as it is his vision and effort.We had a non pdga state masters tourney 2 years ago that was awesome.Last year the worlds kinda quashed it but i considered the naac championships to be the state am championships.My point is if we want a state masters and above championship..someone else should step up and throw one....i too wish us 40s and 50s could play this event against each other...but i would not wish to disrupt jeffs vision for this event with illusions of my own...... I understand jeff......by the way when are you 40?........

[Flatroc]

Jeff,
My bad, I was under the impression that most if not all of the peeps in the state (and on these boards) considered the winner's of this gig would indeed hold the title as "State Champions".
I personally do/did view it in that respect and that is the only reason I spoke up (again) for us geezers.
So, my apologies hombre.
adi-Yose

[Scott]

You know what would be cool? If somebody would step up and run an Oregon Masters Championship held on the same course and the same qualification standards on the following weekend. That would be very cool.

A few years ago we did have a "state championship" tournament. It was usually held at Timber (if I recall correctly) and was announced a week or two beforehand. It was available to anyone. The person who happened to know about the tournament, and was available, who happened to shoot the best that particular day was crowned the state champion. I think what Jeff has come up with is a far superior method of finding the best golfer in the state.

This talk about running another disc golf championship in the state? No thanks, we already have one.

[Flatroc]

Originally Posted by Scott

A few years ago we did have a "state championship" tournament. It was usually held at Timber (if I recall correctly) and was announced a week or two beforehand. It was available to anyone. The person who happened to know about the tournament, and was available, who happened to shoot the best that particular day was crowned the state champion.

Yeh I was there, found out about it the night before.
Poking fun at Scott aside........
Our old buddy Barton Snell used to make sure ALL interested golfers (especially us rebels down south) were made aware of this (at one time) prestigious event.
This trip down memory lane makes me think of Roland Van Bibber.

[emmarose]

woah, woah, woah... hold the phone!!!

am i to understand that, according to you people, i cannot call myself "the 2011 Oregon State Women's Champion"?!?

lame sauce.


what the heck am i supposed to call myself, then?

you people and your damn semantics.