Stat Geeks: Beaver State Fling - MPO Hole by Hole Scoring Analysis - Disc Golf

Bullseye · #1 July 12th, 2011, 10:11 PM

fun fun fun

mine all mine · #2 July 12th, 2011, 10:17 PM

This was an impressive year for scores! I wish I could make it look that easy

Jeff Hemmerling · #3 July 12th, 2011, 10:48 PM

Interesting stuff. Thanks.

snap7times · #4 July 13th, 2011, 12:23 AM

I call bullshet on E14.... 3 people got 3's on that hole, yeah right... Sorry, but BS... That would take a 500 foot perfect shot around the corner past the 2nd row of guardian trees, then a another 500 foot bomb and then a 200 foot eagle shot... yeah 3 times.. okay... heh... would love to hear the stories about how a 3 was accomplished on this hole... Cuz I still havent gotten a 5 on this in the BSF...

Kenny B · #5 July 13th, 2011, 07:49 AM

Thank you for posting this!

Bullseye · #6 July 13th, 2011, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snap7times

I call bullshet on E14.... 3 people got 3's on that hole, yeah right... Sorry, but BS... That would take a 500 foot perfect shot around the corner past the 2nd row of guardian trees, then a another 500 foot bomb and then a 200 foot eagle shot... yeah 3 times.. okay... heh... would love to hear the stories about how a 3 was accomplished on this hole... Cuz I still havent gotten a 5 on this in the BSF...

Just because YOU can't do it, doesn't mean it can't be done

I've only 4'd the long pin three times myself and I know all of the moons had to align just perfectly for that to happen. I am curious though, so I will go back through the data and see exactly who it was who 3'd that hole. My guess is that it involved at least one looooooooong roller.

NWDiscer · #7 July 13th, 2011, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snap7times

I call bullshet on E14.... 3 people got 3's on that hole, yeah right... Sorry, but BS... That would take a 500 foot perfect shot around the corner past the 2nd row of guardian trees, then a another 500 foot bomb and then a 200 foot eagle shot... yeah 3 times.. okay... heh... would love to hear the stories about how a 3 was accomplished on this hole... Cuz I still havent gotten a 5 on this in the BSF...

hmmm maybe just a couple of 600' rollers, then its just a drop in 3

Kenny B · #8 July 13th, 2011, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snap7times

I call bullshet on E14.... 3 people got 3's on that hole, yeah right... Sorry, but BS... That would take a 500 foot perfect shot around the corner past the 2nd row of guardian trees, then a another 500 foot bomb and then a 200 foot eagle shot... yeah 3 times.. okay... heh... would love to hear the stories about how a 3 was accomplished on this hole... Cuz I still havent gotten a 5 on this in the BSF...

I've heard Robbie Bratten can throw some fairly accurate 700+ ft rollers. Granted he wasn't at BSF this year, but I'm sure he's not the only one who can do it.

Scott · #9 July 13th, 2011, 09:40 AM

Awesome stuff. Thanks!

snap7times · #10 July 13th, 2011, 11:23 AM

Yes, I am verrry curious who got 3's and how the heck they did it... 600+ rollers on hole 9w and 13w I can believe.. but hole 14E has enough obstacles to make a roller of this magnitude a shot in the dark... Paul McBeth had a 350 and 500+ frozen rope (darr's good vocab for this), and still had a 300+ foot 3rd shot... Last year's lead group did better on this hole but no one was within 200 on their 3rd shot... so I will wait for the answers...

XandorF · #11 July 13th, 2011, 12:13 PM

Apparently the hardest par 4 this year was....

drum roll please...

hole 6 on the west side. WHAT THE

are you serious? ........

only 13 birdies on this hole the whole time? that's embarrassing. at least i know what hole to look out for next year

Bullseye · #12 July 13th, 2011, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XandorF

Apparently the hardest par 4 this year was....

drum roll please...

hole 6 on the west side. WHAT THE

are you serious? ........

only 13 birdies on this hole the whole time? that's embarrassing. at least i know what hole to look out for next year

Yeah, I noticed that as well. 6W is a great hole, but scoring-wise it is a bit of a "tweener" hole. Although we have called it a par 4 for the past few years, the par is really somewhere between 4 & 5. After looking this data over I suspect calling it a par 5 might be more accurate. It really does take 2 nearly perfect shots to give yourself a putt for the 3.

mine all mine · #13 July 13th, 2011, 12:52 PM

Hole 6W is a very tough hole. I have played the Fling for the last four years and have only birdied it once. And like Bullseye said, it took two perfect shots. A huge 450ish hyzer-bomb followed by a perfect turnover around the tree at the top of the hill that finished back to the basket for a drop in.

Bullseye · #14 July 13th, 2011, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mine all mine

Hole 6W is a very tough hole. I have played the Fling for the last four years and have only birdied it once. And like Bullseye said, it took two perfect shots. A huge 450ish hyzer-bomb followed by a perfect turnover around the tree at the top of the hill that finished back to the basket for a drop in.

Did it "feel" like a birdie... or an eagle?

Sam · #15 July 13th, 2011, 01:08 PM

Mine from last year felt like an Eagle. Especially since I hit it from the top of the hill... blind.

mine all mine · #16 July 13th, 2011, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullseye

Did it "feel" like a birdie... or an eagle?

It felt like the best two shots I could have put together to get there. I would have liked it to be an eagle, but I agree the hole is a tweener.

jeverett · #17 July 13th, 2011, 01:30 PM

mmm stats.. ok, here's where the course design anomalies stand out.. for reference, as a guideline, a well-designed hole should produce a scoring spread with fewer than 70% of players scoring the same:

E1 72.8% of scores are 3
E2 71.0% of scores are 3
E6 72.2% of scores are 3
E8 75.3% of scores are 3
E9 71.6% of scores are 3 (despite being a par 4)
E13 82.2% of scores are 3
E15 69.3% of scores are 3
E18 70.6% of scores are 3

W5 74.2% of scores are 3
W6 68.1% of scores are 4 (it's a par 4)
W8 66.3% of scores are 3, but there are also no 2s on this par 3
W10 76.7% of scores are 3
W15 73.6% of scores are 3
W17 69.9% of scores are 3
W18 79.8% of scores are 3

As you can see, approximately 1/3 of the holes on each course came out over or very close to the 70% maximum guideline, with four particular holes really standing out:

E9 - From the recorded scores, this really wasn't a par 4. 71.6% of players put up a 3 on it, suggesting it really could use redesign both to reduce the number of 3s and increase the number of 4s. How about a more protected basket placement?

E13 - 82.2% of players parred this one, suggesting it could really use redesign to produce more 2s. Perhaps a shorter or less protected basket placement?

W8 - While only 66.3% of players parred this one, not a single player birdied it. The particular combination of fairway obstructions, OB on the right, and small island green around the basket seems to have produced a lot of layups and not a lot of attempts at birdie. Perhaps a non-island basket placement for this one? None of the other island holes had this extreme of an effect on birdie attempts, but pretty clearly this one was a tough hole to have a reasonable shot at birdie on. I personally took my only 6p of the event on it. :P

W18 - At 509', this one was a definite 'tweener'.. thus the 79.8% of players scoring a 3 on it. This one really needs either a tougher basket placement and a par 4 treatment, or a shorter basket placement.

Sam · #18 July 13th, 2011, 02:02 PM

E9 is the Genius hole. I have long wondered why this is a par 4 when it seems like two decent shots should give you an easy 3.

E13 is 2-able and I think should be left alone.

W8's problem is that it is hard to reach the green and land on the green in the air. It is possible to get close but hard to get on. And stop complaining... I took an 11ppp on this hole at last year's M3PO.

Please leave W18 alone. I didn't like it for a while but like it much more now that I can roll to a look.

Bullseye · #19 July 13th, 2011, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeverett

<some text removed for brevity>

As you can see, approximately 1/3 of the holes on each course came out over or very close to the 70% maximum guideline, with four particular holes really standing out:

E9 - From the recorded scores, this really wasn't a par 4. 71.6% of players put up a 3 on it, suggesting it really could use redesign both to reduce the number of 3s and increase the number of 4s. How about a more protected basket placement?

E13 - 82.2% of players parred this one, suggesting it could really use redesign to produce more 2s. Perhaps a shorter or less protected basket placement?

W8 - While only 66.3% of players parred this one, not a single player birdied it. The particular combination of fairway obstructions, OB on the right, and small island green around the basket seems to have produced a lot of layups and not a lot of attempts at birdie. Perhaps a non-island basket placement for this one? None of the other island holes had this extreme of an effect on birdie attempts, but pretty clearly this one was a tough hole to have a reasonable shot at birdie on. I personally took my only 6p of the event on it. :P

W18 - At 509', this one was a definite 'tweener'.. thus the 79.8% of players scoring a 3 on it. This one really needs either a tougher basket placement and a par 4 treatment, or a shorter basket placement.

[E9]: This is the "Genius" hole. A tree fell two winters ago that made the hole considerably easier, however, the dilemma is that even with the tree gone it is still VERY hard to card a "2" on this hole. As it stands I consider it an easy par 4, which IMO is better than a "3" with almost no chance at the birdie.

[E13]: This hole was shortened this year in an attempt to accomplish this. We did have more birdies this year than we did last year.

[W8]: I definitely will not be taking this pin position off the island, but I have been fighting to re-introduce the "border" on the front side the island (but not on the back side) and upping the par to "4". This would prevent people from sliding an upshot onto the island. This one change made a huge impact on the way the hole played in the year we used the border.

[W18]: I will have to start looking at options for this hole. It doesn't HAVE to change, but if we can make a minor change that will "mix it up" a bit it could be improved.

runnaman · #20 July 13th, 2011, 02:06 PM

Great suggestions Jeverret. I had some of those exact same suggestions. Especially on the genius hole.