Tdg 2011-12 - Page 5 - OR Team Disc Golf

Sam · #81 July 27th, 2011, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim

Camping in a multiplayer FPS isn't technically cheating, but it sure does suck the fun out of the game for everyone else.

And I am not one who would ever miss a putt on purpose... but let's not call a giraffe a water buffalo because our panties are in a bunch. Really.

chris7graham · #82 July 28th, 2011, 12:01 AM

WOW all who are involved

jdinteg · #83 July 28th, 2011, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam

I think you meant "Mr. Doesn't Give even the smallest of Fs about Your Opinion". Just so we're clear.

That's what I like most about you Sam. I never have to worry your gonna sugar coat something.

Sam · #84 July 28th, 2011, 08:31 AM

Bushes beaten around: 0.

Is bagging something that has happened in TDG for years? Uh... yes. Is it part of the game? Uh... yes. I spoke with Camo about this subject yesterday and he proudly proclaimed that Rockwood does this when they are winning or losing big. And hey... they won the thing, I believe, so this is actually an effective tactic should one wish to employ it. Do I think Rockwood cheated? Hell no and I will defend them their right to bag until the rules are changed such as to disallow it.

Sausage Fingers · #85 July 28th, 2011, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam

Bushes beaten around: 0.

Is bagging something that has happened in TDG for years? Uh... yes. Is it part of the game? Uh... yes. I spoke with Camo about this subject yesterday and he proudly proclaimed that Rockwood does this when they are winning or losing big. And hey... they won the thing, I believe, so this is actually an effective tactic should one wish to employ it. Do I think Rockwood cheated? Hell no and I will defend them their right to bag until the rules are changed such as to disallow it.

And I do not believe that there should be RULES changes, more like some slight tinkering with how the ratings are calculated should be enough to limit this tactic. (And I am not sure that I disagree with the tactic in the first place.)

Let me tell a little story about the history of TDG. Way back in the day when only the hardcore crazies showed up, the morning matches were all doubles. And a good system for handicapping doubles matches is very hard to come up with. We tried a number of different options, the first of which was add the two ratings together and divide by two. This gave a huge advantage to the dubs team that could field a 1000 rated Pro and an 800 rated Am. They would take almost every shot by the Pro and crush the two 900 rated Ams who had to play them straight up.

So we changed the way we handled the dubs matches to try to make them a more fair battle. But in the end, to help the singles ratings be the most accurate they could be, we limited the dubs to 2 per match. This gave us more data points for singles ratings, and the correspondingly more accurate singles ratings, but did not do away with the dubs entirely.

But in reality, when you are on a roll in a match and all of your drives are workin and the basket looks as big as a barn and all of your putts are falling, it is very hard to dial it back. But it is in your best interest, in a handicapped league, to NOT post your best round ever. Unless it represents your new level of play, because you will be expected by your rating to shoot that from now on or you will lose matches.

Sorry I posted so much, but I am fascinated by this stuff.

Sam · #86 July 28th, 2011, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sausage Fingers

And I do not believe that there should be RULES changes...

(And I am not sure that I disagree with the tactic in the first place.)

But it is in your best interest, in a handicapped league, to NOT post your best round ever. Unless it represents your new level of play, because you will be expected by your rating to shoot that from now on or you will lose matches.

TD says... NOT cheating.

Thank you, Jordan. Our team needs to get better at this, by the way. Gawain can NOT shoot a 54 at Pier for prelims this year!!

Sausage Fingers · #87 July 28th, 2011, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam

TD says... NOT cheating.

Thank you, Jordan. Our team needs to get better at this, by the way. Gawain can NOT shoot a 54 at Pier for prelims this year!!

It wasn't that round so much as the 1008 rated round he shot at Sorosis Week 1 and the TWO 1000 rated rounds he shot at Trojan Week 8!

He finished TDG with his rating 41 points above his PDGA rating.

Wes Hansen · #88 July 28th, 2011, 09:41 AM

I'm not sure if I'm reading all this correctly...
Was Gawain just accused of anti-bagging?

Sam · #89 July 28th, 2011, 09:49 AM

I think you would not find any evidence of our team bagging at all last year... and we had our best year yet.

Sam · #90 July 28th, 2011, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wes Hansen

I'm not sure if I'm reading all this correctly...
Was Gawain just accused of anti-bagging?

Quite. We'll work with him on that this summer.

Sausage Fingers · #91 July 28th, 2011, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam

I think you would not find any evidence of our team bagging at all last year... and we had our best year yet.

Here is the change in rating from start to finish for our team last year. Everybody finished above their PDGA rating:

Old, Bad & Sassy
Gawain Stern 41
Sam Gibson 32
Teresa Trueba 29
Jordan Lewis 27
Doug Saulter 26
Tom Embree 23
Jeff Elliott 21

emmarose · #92 July 28th, 2011, 10:00 AM

ewww.

i am disillusioned by this discussion.

but, thank you to everyone for clearly illustrating that team golf is not for me. i understand both sides of the bagging issue... how it feels wrong, but how it is good strategy. it's why perhaps i never win at scrabble... i just want to make the coolest, biggest words and open up the board where as my opponent is actually trying to screw me, get lots of points, oh, right and win...

anyway, for those teams i've been leading on with "offer me a spot and i may still play"... sorry, i'm totally over it... leaves me with a bad taste...

Sam · #93 July 28th, 2011, 10:01 AM

Handicapped leagues are not for everyone. We'll miss your smiling face, Emma.

#94 July 28th, 2011, 10:05 AM

"Cheating refers to the breaking of rules to gain advantage in a competitive situation. The rules infringed may be explicit, or they may be from an unwritten code of conduct based on morality, ethics or custom, making the identification of cheating a subjective process." from wiki.

And other handicapped leagues do have written rules such as, "This rule also concerns the deliberate manipulation of skill levels. The League Operator or the Board of Governors has the option to disqualify a team from becoming eligible for Session Playoffs and Higher Level Tournaments, or receiving trophies as a result of their play in a session, if in the League Operator's or Board of Governors' sole judgment and absolute discretion, one or more of its players are deemed to be playing at a skill level below their true ability.

The League Operator and/or BOG should exercise this option no later than 15 days after the Session Playoff finals. Make sure the skill levels of all team members reflect their true ability. If you think a teammate's skill level is too low for any reason, simply call the League Office and ask them to raise the player's skill level appropriately." from poolplayers.com.

I am not saying this is how you should run your league, but you should realize some people like to give 100% all the time and should not be punished for trying harder than the other team.

Now I will get in my WHAMBULANCE and

all the way home.

Sausage Fingers · #95 July 28th, 2011, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emmarose

ewww.

i am disillusioned by this discussion.

but, thank you to everyone for clearly illustrating that team golf is not for me. i understand both sides of the bagging issue... how it feels wrong, but how it is good strategy. it's why perhaps i never win at scrabble... i just want to make the coolest, biggest words and open up the board where as my opponent is actually trying to screw me, get lots of points, oh, right and win...

anyway, for those teams i've been leading on with "offer me a spot and i may still play"... sorry, i'm totally over it... leaves me with a bad taste...

i really need to get some thicker skin cause this hurts.

Sam · #96 July 28th, 2011, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Brodys

"Cheating refers to the breaking of rules to gain advantage in a competitive situation. The rules infringed may be explicit, or they may be from an unwritten code of conduct based on morality, ethics or custom, making the identification of cheating a subjective process." from wiki.

And other handicapped leagues do have written rules such as, "This rule also concerns the deliberate manipulation of skill levels. The League Operator or the Board of Governors has the option to disqualify a team from becoming eligible for Session Playoffs and Higher Level Tournaments, or receiving trophies as a result of their play in a session, if in the League Operator's or Board of Governors' sole judgment and absolute discretion, one or more of its players are deemed to be playing at a skill level below their true ability.

The League Operator and/or BOG should exercise this option no later than 15 days after the Session Playoff finals. Make sure the skill levels of all team members reflect their true ability. If you think a teammate's skill level is too low for any reason, simply call the League Office and ask them to raise the player's skill level appropriately." from poolplayers.com.

I am not saying this is how you should run your league, but you should realize some people like to give 100% all the time and should not be punished for trying harder than the other team.

Now I will get in my WHAMBULANCE and

all the way home.

Well, awesome... now we know how pool leagues handle this situation. Good thing that this is completely irrelevant to this disc golf league and the handicapped league I run.

Sounds like this might not be the game for you, Brodys. Perhaps stick to the tiered leagues and events so you don't have to worry about people playing a better game than you do.

Sausage Fingers · #97 July 28th, 2011, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Brodys

"Cheating refers to the breaking of rules to gain advantage in a competitive situation. The rules infringed may be explicit, or they may be from an unwritten code of conduct based on morality, ethics or custom, making the identification of cheating a subjective process." from wiki.

And other handicapped leagues do have written rules such as, "This rule also concerns the deliberate manipulation of skill levels. The League Operator or the Board of Governors has the option to disqualify a team from becoming eligible for Session Playoffs and Higher Level Tournaments, or receiving trophies as a result of their play in a session, if in the League Operator's or Board of Governors' sole judgment and absolute discretion, one or more of its players are deemed to be playing at a skill level below their true ability.

The League Operator and/or BOG should exercise this option no later than 15 days after the Session Playoff finals. Make sure the skill levels of all team members reflect their true ability. If you think a teammate's skill level is too low for any reason, simply call the League Office and ask them to raise the player's skill level appropriately." from poolplayers.com.

I am not saying this is how you should run your league, but you should realize some people like to give 100% all the time and should not be punished for trying harder than the other team.

Now I will get in my WHAMBULANCE and

all the way home.

i am not sure that this applies to our sport. it seems, from reading this only I have no knowledge of how pool does their handicapping, that they do not actually use a handicap to adjust the 'scores' of their players as much as they have skill levels that they group players into. And once in that group, if you are significantly better than the other players you can crush them without a hope of losing.

Now if we could only get this discussion going without the personal slams I'd be open to hearing any ideas on how to make it better for all involved. There has to be a good way to level the playing field for all levels of competitors.

#98 July 28th, 2011, 10:34 AM

If you say so Sam. You can defend bagging all you want. This is NOT the game for me! There is no way I would ever again play in a league that encourages bagging. Hence not returning to TDG.

Everyone plays a better game than I do, that is the least of my worries. I am worried about the people that give 100% on every shot and get screwed because you encourage bagging.

Carie CPink · #99 July 28th, 2011, 10:40 AM

This isn't sand bagging...it's douche bagging. Perfectly legal but absolutely douchy.

chris7graham · #**100** July 28th, 2011, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Brodys

If you say so Sam. You can defend bagging all you want. This is NOT the game for me! There is no way I would ever again play in a league that encourages bagging. Hence not returning to TDG.

Everyone plays a better game than I do, that is the least of my worries. I am worried about the people that give 100% on every shot and get screwed because you encourage bagging.

Hate to say this but bagging will always be there no matter what you say or do and in any and all disc golf tourneys or leagues