2011 Rules Comments: Holing Out

[Kenny B]

So, I recieved my PDGA registration package for 2011 and included was the new rule book. Here is a rule change that I wondered what people thought about...

803.13 Holing Out:
B. Disc Entrapment Devices: In order to hole out, the thrower must release the disc and it must come to rest supported by the chains and/or the inner cylinder (bottom and inside wall) of the tray. It may be additionally supported by the pole. A disc observed by two or more players of the group or an official to have entered the target below the top of the tray or abve the bottom of the chain support is not holed out.

And in the Summary of Rules Changes section:
The definition of holing out has been tightened up a bit. A putt that sticks in the side of the tray, or hangs outside the tray from one of the nubs, no longer counts.

[Sausage Fingers]

Originally Posted by Kenny B

So, I recieved my PDGA registration package for 2011 and included was the new rule book. Here is a rule change that I wondered what people thought about...

803.13 Holing Out:
B. Disc Entrapment Devices: In order to hole out, the thrower must release the disc and it must come to rest supported by the chains and/or the inner cylinder (bottom and inside wall) of the tray. It may be additionally supported by the pole. A disc observed by two or more players of the group or an official to have entered the target below the top of the tray or abve the bottom of the chain support is not holed out.

And in the Summary of Rules Changes section:
The definition of holing out has been tightened up a bit. A putt that sticks in the side of the tray, or hangs outside the tray from one of the nubs, no longer counts.

WEAK SAUCE!!!!

[DMajor]

I agree with the sticking in the side of the cage rule change. That's generally a pretty bad putt. But if you chain out an are lucky enough to catch a nub and hang it should count in my opinion. I think I've only seen that happen once or twice.

[Uhlman]

What is the printing date for rule book you got, because it's not in the one I got this October

[TreeLove]

The part about not coming through the top is absurd. There are approved Innova baskets on which the disc can fit through the top (ever play at Champoeg)? Debating whether an ace came through the top is not an argument I want to have on the course. I will urge the PDGA to reconsider or change again in 2012.

[Scott]

I hope that rule is not retroactive - I'd lose an ace.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by DMajor

I agree with the sticking in the side of the cage rule change. That's generally a pretty bad putt. But if you chain out an are lucky enough to catch a nub and hang it should count in my opinion. I think I've only seen that happen once or twice.

Sticking in the side of the cage is more likely to occur with a drive or upshot.

[Uhlman]

I wonder why they decide to change this rule. if the disc is stuck in the cage at least some part of is on the inside of the basket. This is good enough to be in bounds when it comes to that rule (or have they changed that too?)

[RonTheWhip]

Originally Posted by Kenny B

So, I recieved my PDGA registration package for 2011 and included was the new rule book. Here is a rule change that I wondered what people thought about...

803.13 Holing Out:
B. Disc Entrapment Devices: In order to hole out, the thrower must release the disc and it must come to rest supported by the chains and/or the inner cylinder (bottom and inside wall) of the tray. It may be additionally supported by the pole. A disc observed by two or more players of the group or an official to have entered the target below the top of the tray or abve the bottom of the chain support is not holed out.

And in the Summary of Rules Changes section:
The definition of holing out has been tightened up a bit. A putt that sticks in the side of the tray, or hangs outside the tray from one of the nubs, no longer counts.

I agree with this rule. It takes away some of the luck factor involved with slipping in the sides, or sticking into the tray, which, was not a good throw to begin with.

As far as the ACE debate goes, the rule has the covered Gawain - "A disc observed by two or more players of the group or an official to have entered the target below the top of the tray or abve the bottom of the chain support is not holed out..." simple: if they didn't see it go in through the sides or the top, then they can't take it away from you.

I also appreciate this rule for when it comes to folks slapping the chains while holding the disc in their hands...that is not holing out! Let go of the disc if you want it to count.

Good work PDGA.

[JMan]

A friend has the luck, I've seen him stick more of his floppy Soft Mags in the sides of baskets than seems possible, he's gonna be pissed. But remember this is for pdga sanctioned play, not casual rounds. I'll still give him those. Don't forget friends, the pdga has to change things, that's what you pay them for.

[RonTheWhip]

Originally Posted by Uhlman

I wonder why they decide to change this rule. if the disc is stuck in the cage at least some part of is on the inside of the basket. This is good enough to be in bounds when it comes to that rule (or have they changed that too?)

Way different instances here. Landing on an out of bounds line and being partially in bounds (thus ruled safe) is very different from squeezing a soft putter through the edge of the tray. While both are lucky in a sense, unless you land completely out of bounds, it wasn't a bad shot. Missing the target area low by a few inches...is a bad shot. Just my opinon. And no, to my knowledge, they have not changed any rulings on OB for the 2011 addition, although I look forward to recieving my copy and reading it thoroughly.

[snap7times]

WTH, that takes away my ace shot at Cascades that won me $100, flew perfect the whole way, was just inches low and stuck, which is the only disc I have ever stuck in the cage in my years of playing disc golf anyways. Similar to a 5 foot high bounce in ball golf that hits the stick bounces down and spins in; this I would compare to sticking the cage from a distance because the stick is not in the hole but helps the ball go in the hole... hmmmm... while I agree short putts that stick are bad putts, that takes away long perfect shots that get stuck in the cage... interesting stuff... next year the 10M rule will become the 15M rule?

[Kenny B]

Originally Posted by Uhlman

What is the printing date for rule book you got, because it's not in the one I got this October

I don't see a printing date, but the bottom of the inside cover says: Copyright 2011. Also, the top of page 1 says: Revised January 1, 2011.

[Yardbird]

Sure, you can argue that the putt was not in perfect form, but in all reality, the disc was supported by the basket and at rest (this should also include DROTs). Not everyone has perfect putting form on every shot and should be allowed a little luck every now and then, especially on throws from outside of 75 feet.

So, maybe the PDGA should allow discs supported outside of the basket on throws from outside of 100 feet? But, of course, that would not make the rule simple and would lead to distance disputes.

If you are really worried about bad putts being rewarded, then remove all the nubs from the top of the tray. All they do is prevent skips out of the tray/basket on putts that were either on the weak side, stong side, or too high.

[DMajor]

Originally Posted by Scott

Sticking in the side of the cage is more likely to occur with a drive or upshot.

Hmmm, I've played my fair share of disc golf and never seen a drive or upshot stick in the side of the cage. Probably seen atleast a dozen or two putts stick.

[sillybizz]

So what if my disc goes into the chains and then goes out through the hole in the cage? Does that mean It's a completed hole now? I know with most baskets this most likely will never happen but at Lake Stevens this is a regular thing, especially with everyone using floppy putters and such with those baskets.

If they don't want them going through that part then why not make a new basket covering it up completely?

[smobro]

Fortunately this rule change will have little effect on the overall outcome of most PDGA events. My guess, and it is only a guess, is that it would be unbelievably rare to ever have a failed putt that stuck in the side of the cage cause someone to lose a PDGA event.
That is no different than having a putt spit out at a costly moment.
It has to come to rest inside the basket or chains.... but I am a fan of removing the chains altogether.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by DMajor

Hmmm, I've played my fair share of disc golf and never seen a drive or upshot stick in the side of the cage. Probably seen atleast a dozen or two putts stick.

That's funny, I've never seen a putt stick in the side of the cage. I've seen a few aces stick in the side of the cage and have heard of several more.

[Sausage Fingers]

Originally Posted by Scott

That's funny, I've never seen a putt stick in the side of the cage. I've seen a few aces stick in the side of the cage and have heard of several more.

I've played with someone who could putt the shit out of those through the cage putts with an amazingly floppy putter. 15-25 feet away, thrown hard and flat at below the rim height and they go all the way through the cage and stay in the basket.

Still not in favor of the new rule, and i love me some rules...

[snap7times]

here's my $100 ace on #2 at Cascade. 222 footer. Glo Stalker in 15 mph left to right winds

Just took a look at that picture, no that is notttt my tag! I tagged my disc, had 4-5 people sign it and it's being dyed now. Took a picture of the ace obviously too... but that is not my tag lol...