Dave Dunipace says "Its the Plastic Stupid"

[Mayumoogy]

So I asked a question to Dave Dunipace about why the molds change so damn much, and he ANSWERED ME! So here it is straight from the horses mouth on why their discs are so damn different!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayumoogy View Post
This might have been asked before, but I searched and couldn't find anything.

Why do the molds change so much from 1st run discs to the regular runs?

My first run destroyer and my echo star destroyer look like two different discs when you look at them next to each other, 1st run flat, ES domey. Why do they change so much?

Do you keep every mold you have released? Why don't you ever re-release a really popular mold run, in current plastic types. I can think of... oh about everyone who would love to get the old CE plastic molds in the newer champion plastic. also the 11x firebirds, and any other coveted older discs.

Thank you for your time! Love your discs!

Answer from Dave!

Those flat and domey changes aren't mold changes. They are plastic changes. We have never had a plastic from the manufacturer stay the same for more than a couple of years. Sometimes they change from batch to batch. When the plastic changes, the appearance of the disc changes. This is true for all plastic types we use

[Ol' Bob]

Next time you're BS'n with old Dave, ask him when I can get Bosses and Katanas in DX, wouldja?

[REDFIVE]

Follow along.

[Ol' Bob]

I put in, "DX Boss," and got: "Your search yielded no results."

Should I go to the beginning of the thread and plow through it? Won't be easy for a lysdexic like me.

I would mind trying a DX Vulcan too.

[Mayumoogy]

I wish I could ask him everything in the world about disc golf, but I was just on the pdga.com forum, on the ask Dave thread. Its pretty cool to get an answer though, and quick too, only took half a day.

The plastic thing makes a lot of sense. I wonder if that means we will never see the older CE plastic again Theres got to be a formula out there, stuck away with the Original KFC chicken recipe, and the recipe for Coke.

[Sean Phillips]

CE plastic can definitely be replicated. But why would a disc manufacturer sell you a disc you can throw for 10+ years. Its the same reason shoes don't last more than a year anymore. It's bad business.

[Ol' Bob]

My late Wobbly pal, Will Slayton, said:

"In America, things are made to be sold, and once they've done that, they've served their purpose."

[Parks]

Originally Posted by Sean Phillips

CE plastic can definitely be replicated. But why would a disc manufacturer sell you a disc you can throw for 10+ years. Its the same reason shoes don't last more than a year anymore. It's bad business.

This is untrue.

People LOVE that stuff, so an up and coming disc maker would pick up the plastic and get instantly strong sales and a solid reputation out of the gate if it were available and at reasonable prices.

People also act like disc replacements for worn in/broken discs are a much bigger part of the market than they actually are. Having a plastic that people consider the holy grail is much more valuable.

[Mayumoogy]

I think it would be a no brainer for a new company to come out and offer the original CE plastic out of the gate. I wonder if Innova has the patent on the stuff for the time being and are keeping it under wraps. Also since most other small disc companies(Disc Mania, Millennium, others I cant think of) go to Innova or others that have the $250,000 injection molder for the pressing of the discs, you would think they could keep any up and comer from bringing the stuff to market.

I say just bring the stuff out again, and charge 50 blinking dollars a disc! They will last forever so its a good investment, and they get a lot of money off the get go, and they can still make money bringing every bloody disc model out in the stuff.

[Parks]

Originally Posted by Mayumoogy

I think it would be a no brainer for a new company to come out and offer the original CE plastic out of the gate. I wonder if Innova has the patent on the stuff for the time being and are keeping it under wraps.

Nope, no patents on plastic types by any disc company that I know of.

They all purchase their plastic from distributors. Innova could keep it a secret which exact type of plastic CE was and where it came from, but they definitely do not hold a patent on any plastic blend.

Dave D did have the patent on the triangle-shaped disc rim, which is why you have that same Innova patent number molded onto other companies discs, but it has since expired. They no longer need to license it.

[Mayumoogy]

I didn't think this deserved its own thread, but it has to do with plastic. What do companies add to discs to get the different weights? Is it just hit and miss or do they set out to make a batch of 175g discs, then 170g and so on?

[Jonesy]

Latitudes opto and gold lines are more indestructable than ce. Let the s fly.

[Parks]

Originally Posted by Mayumoogy

I didn't think this deserved its own thread, but it has to do with plastic. What do companies add to discs to get the different weights? Is it just hit and miss or do they set out to make a batch of 175g discs, then 170g and so on?

They definitely have a target weight range (can't really do exact weights), and they use a weighting agent.

In Champion plastic, the weighting agent adds cloudiness to the plastic.

[TreeLove]

Originally Posted by Parks

They definitely have a target weight range (can't really do exact weights), and they use a weighting agent.

In Champion plastic, the weighting agent adds cloudiness to the plastic.

Interesting theory, please cite references.

[Bruce]

Dave D has talked about the weighing agent on the pdga forums and different affects it has on plastic.

[General Scales]

Originally Posted by Jonesy

Latitudes opto and gold lines are more indestructable than ce. Let the s fly.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by Parks

Nope, no patents on plastic types by any disc company that I know of.

They all purchase their plastic from distributors. Innova could keep it a secret which exact type of plastic CE was and where it came from, but they definitely do not hold a patent on any plastic blend.

Dave D did have the patent on the triangle-shaped disc rim, which is why you have that same Innova patent number molded onto other companies discs, but it has since expired. They no longer need to license it.

Dave D always seems to makes it sound like the source plastic they get is not in innova's control. I don't know exactly what this means but he has a habit of making CE sound like it was some kind of happy accident and thus can't be recreated. That actually seems like his take on a number of the details of innova's discs.

I don't really understand this as a business practice even if it is true. You might think he would bluff control if he didn't have it, or even just hint at it. Instead he seems to shirk it off. He's either playing coy cause it's easy or maybe just being straight up.