the golfs compared

[DexterHawk]

Originally Posted by Flash

Andy good point, its probably more true then we can know right now but only time will tell.

Byron, I made my point to competition only, sure there are awesome and amazing golfers I meet everytime I am on the course. Most amateurs fit into this category, however on the tour, which is what I am comparing, most disc golfers attitude reflect my previous judgment.

I think the biggest hurdle our sport are the rules. A rule where a player can solely determine an unplayable and take relief is ridiculous. Our rules allow players to twist them to their advantage in a lot of ways and that just seems wrong. Our rules put the players on the defensive against each other and people consider it a personal attack if a rule violation is called. Watching it is almost vindictive, when someone gets called they start looking to bust the person who called them. I have seen this way to many times for it to be isolated instances.

Man I guess I do sounds cynical, I should really work on that!

I totally agree... but this is not impossible to remedy... Just look at Ultimate. A physical team sport where players referee themselves. In Ultimate they call sportsmanship "spirit of the game" and it is almost sacred. The truth is that until players make a stonger effort to use the rules more often (i.e. call eachother / discuss the rules during rounds) or we get more officials on the courses at big tournaments we're going to have to settle for the huge amount of gray area that exists in our sport right now. That said, I think that more effort should be made top down from the PDGA to simplify the rules in a way that they can be put on a half a sheet of paper and easily taught in a half hour session.

[Adam Schneider]

I was just thinking about Ultimate and S.O.T.G. when reading this thread earlier. I wonder if it's easier to enforce there because it's a TEAM sport -- if someone starts copping an attitude, they've got their whole crew there to rein them back in. And it's in a player's best interest to stay in good with the team.

[Flash]

Originally Posted by Adam Schneider

I was just thinking about Ultimate and S.O.T.G. when reading this thread earlier. I wonder if it's easier to enforce there because it's a TEAM sport -- if someone starts copping an attitude, they've got their whole crew there to rein them back in. And it's in a player's best interest to stay in good with the team.

My thoughts exactly!

[Jim J]

Originally Posted by Adam Schneider

I was just thinking about Ultimate and S.O.T.G. when reading this thread earlier. I wonder if it's easier to enforce there because it's a TEAM sport -- if someone starts copping an attitude, they've got their whole crew there to rein them back in. And it's in a player's best interest to stay in good with the team.

I'm not sure about this.

Spirit of the game in ultimate is more prevalent in casual games like city leagues and pickup. When you start moving into highly-competitive play, spirit tends to break down, which is why the UPA has gravitated toward the use of observers in these situations. The same dynamic seems to hold true for DG.

I also think that a lot of the calls you make in ultimate (picks, fast count, travelling, contact with the thrower before release) are a lot more subjective than calls you make in DG. Plus, DG calls generally have to be seconded by another person in your group, which adds another layer of control.

While I understand the need for rules, I'll always make a distinction between violation of rules that create an unfair advantage and those that don't. For example, if a player takes a second throw from the middle of a big, open field and their plant foot isn't completely lined up with their mini, I'm not going to say anything. But if they're stretching around a tree and the pant foot drifts, then I will.

[Getty]

Originally Posted by Adam Schneider

I was just thinking about Ultimate and S.O.T.G. when reading this thread earlier. I wonder if it's easier to enforce there because it's a TEAM sport -- if someone starts copping an attitude, they've got their whole crew there to rein them back in. And it's in a player's best interest to stay in good with the team.

Also, there are basically 14 refs on the field and a whole bunch on the sideline. The peer pressure is overwhelming to keep it legit although there are a few miscreants.

The UPA did a smart thing a few years back by publishing "10 Simple Rules Of Ultimate" on the website. We got the card in our membership packs if I remember correctly. The PDGA should do the same thing. It's a cheap and effective way to get the most basic rules out there.

Originally Posted by Jim J

While I understand the need for rules, I'll always make a distinction between violation of rules that create an unfair advantage and those that don't. For example, if a player takes a second throw from the middle of a big, open field and their plant foot isn't completely lined up with their mini, I'm not going to say anything. But if they're stretching around a tree and the pant foot drifts, then I will.

Nice post.

Maybe it's because I haven't played in the pro ranks yet but the foot fault stuff has never confronted me too harshly in my competitive rounds. If I notice a fellow competitor missing his mark I wait until we are both walking and say quietly "hey watch your foot cause if you get called on it, it will be a drag for all of us."

A bit outside the rules? Yes. In the spirit of them ( an extra warning essentially) I thinks so.

[General Scales]

Having had a tournament round killed because of two people that were less than thrilled with my performance. I called one foot fault on this person at D.R.O (they shall remain nameless) and he seconded it. That was his warning of course. He did the same maneuver again and he was called by another player on the card. This time I seconded it (the second fault was much more blatant than the 1st). This infuriated the person in question. As we walked to the next hole, he lagged behind and started talking to his friend who was also on our card (at this point I was first on the card). Next tee, I get called on a foot fault for my toe being over off the pad. I second it because I knew I slipped. The re-tee results in a more than stellar drive. I get called on a foot fault again (was nowhere near the front of the pad because I was worried about doing it again). It was immediately seconded by his friend, who was, by all accounts of the last person on our card, not even watching since he was digging in his bag. I re-tee again and hit a tree.

This pattern happened for the next 12 holes. I got called on equipment interference because the instigator had a roll away and his disc hit my equipment. He called it, it was seconded immediately. I brought to his attention that he had never asked for me to move my bag and therefore couldn't call me on an interference call. This caused a ruckus and was immediately transferred over to the T.D. for a decision. He ruled in favor of me. Pretty much all of my throws that were stellar, were immediately pulled back because of these two. The last person on the card even brought it to the attention of the T.D. that he had seen nothing like it. Took my round which should of been a 52-55 and turned it into a 65 because of penalties. This made my mental game go to crap which in turn made me shoot an even worse round the 2nd round. After both rounds, I ran into the two people that were calling me on all these "faults". They both laughed and said "maybe next time you'll watch who you call on a foot fault, won't ya?" When I said it was blatant, the reply was something along the lines of "Well who gives an eff?".

This type of behavior has happened more than once at a tournament. Seen some very bad behavior on those who are getting worked. I've never seen this type of poor sportsmanship in a ball golf tournament. This is a difference, unfortunately, that falls into the Pro Ball Golf Category.

[Ol' Bob]

Wow! A pair to draw to. They should have a warning tattooed on their foreheads.

Wow Scales that pisses me off just to read about. I'm not sure I would be able to show the admirable self controll you are showing by not listing these people's names. Jerks like that shouldn't even be allowed in tournaments.

[Jim J]

Originally Posted by Bryon_Harris

Jerks like that shouldn't even be allowed in tournaments.

When two people in a group decide to collude, you are screwed.

PDGA board had a discussion of a player deep in the thicket who throws a bad recovery shot and calls himself for a foot fault, which his colluder seconds. (Of course the guy was in so deep no one knows if he foot faulted or not.)

Then comes a better executed throw, no penalty, and the favor is returned later in the round.

Tough for mortals to prevent this, which is why we have Karma.

That situation you mention, while obviously stretching the intent of the rule (and thus to me considered cheating) at least has going for it that it is not malevolent. By that I mean the collusion defying the principal of the rules does not target to harm and harrass a specific individual. Shades of gray really, both cheating to me, but to me General Scale's story crosses over to evil behavior ( by the offending characters of course).

[Chad_Carter]

Originally Posted by Tek Zeus

In ball golf you play it as it lies. In Disc Golf we get a meter....

sometimes in ball golf you get a club length.

[D.L.]

and you can choose from around 14 different lengths..

[sk8architecture]

Clubs vs. Discs-

I finally broke down the past few months into all the new rage of high speed drivers...Nuke, Katana, Bolt, Havac......In any case last few rounds I have been playing with a Bolt, Havoc, Rampage/Cannon. I have found the three fit similar with relative to turn as my go to drivers AvengerSS, Surge, Destroyer except I can get extra distance with the high speed stuff but reduced accuracy......In ball golf for me the bigger the club(disc speed) the further I can hit the ball but with much less accuracy...My point...

Super Fast Drivers are like ball drivers thru woods. Distance but tough on accuracy
Fast Drivers are like 7 wood thru 3 iron. Solid distance better accuracy
Fairway drivers like 4 iron thru 6 iron. Solid work horse.
Mid-Range like 7 irons thru 9 Iron
P and A like pitching, lob sand wedges.

Just like in disc golf when I have pefect form I can nail a 6 Iron further than my 3 Iron.