Official Announcement: CSI to split weekends

[LJ Jubner]

I also wanted to mention that between the two weekends CSI contributed $315 to the repayment of the SeaTac basket purchase to it's lenders. Thats nearly 10% of the total cost.

[Getty]

You can also try charging them $20 for the trophy they won fair and square in a division you decided to hold. I know for a fact you didn't have to pay out scrip to one first-place finisher, so you got to pocket that payout. Cool Shoez would've hung you by the balls, for sure.

Still, I had a great time playing 3 rounds with some new pals and managed to throw or match personal bests in all 3 rounds.

Originally Posted by LJ Jubner

Second, I wanted to thank the Am's who used their scrip as entry into the Open weekend. As a TD I have choices to make one of which was to allow Am's to do just that scrip for entry. I could have very easily made them take plastic and then pay again to play the following weekend but I did not.

[LJ Jubner]

Originally Posted by Getty

You can also try charging them $20 for the trophy they won fair and square in a division you decided to hold. I know for a fact you didn't have to pay out scrip to one first-place finisher, so you got to pocket that payout. Cool Shoez would've hung you by the balls, for sure.

Still, I had a great time playing 3 rounds with some new pals and managed to throw or match personal bests in all 3 rounds.

You raise some interesting points
How many players need to be in a field to offer a trophy? Not the division but actual number of players? 2?,3?

My trophies come in two parts the actual trophy and the custom top.

Getty I could have just as easily gave you the custom top ONLY and had it count as a trophy. As far as scrip goes you can still cash it in.

[geo_ducks]

It is refreshing to see a TD be candid about payout/finances for an event. Any TD deserves to take their full share of entry fees. This should never be a point of contention, especially for those of us who have not run our own tournaments. To all TDs out there: THANK YOU FOR ALL YOUR HARD WORK!!!!!

With that said, much respect is due to the SeaTac course and those who have done such an excellent job of maintaining it. May the future of our sport head in this direction...the days of pitch and putt golf is over!!!
For those who have not played SeaTac, do yourself a favor and see if you are as good as you think

[DoubleDees]

I dont see why the person running the event should be paid more than the person winning the event in Open. PERIOD.


I would like to give Jub a congrats on winning the CSI.

[Skookum]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I though the Maximum event management fee for a "C" Tier event was $100 dollars.

http://www.pdga.com/files/documents/TourStandards.pdf

[DoubleDees]

65x57=3705
8x57=456
12x57=684
45x57=2565
456/2565=.17.7%

fees are not part of the prize pool.
-----------------
20x57=1140

this is to much money out of the prize pool.
-----------------

Total prize pool= 2556 on the pdga site.

Open Men=1741 38x45 1710
Open Women=185 4x45 180
Master Men=630 14x45 630

according to Jub math there is added money.
----------------------------

if you can read and understand what i just did here you will realize that it doesnt make sense. ive always got along with Jub and dont hold any ill will! I feel this is something that might help people realize that playing pro is pointless.

edit*fixed

[LJ Jubner]

Originally Posted by Skookum

Correct me if I'm wrong but I though the Maximum event management fee for a "C" Tier event was $100 dollars.

I am not sure if there is a limit or not I used the standard service industry tipping percentages. I heard the pDGA might insist TD's take a cut (8%)then hold them responsable for the results. IE It's hard to bitch out a volunteer but it's easy to critique someone who was compensated.

Thanks Ed that means a lot coming from you. I wanted to thank all the entrants who compensated me for the work on the course that benefits everyone the other 24/7, 363.

[Skookum]

I guess it just depends on if Tour Standards are more like guide lines than actual rules.

http://www.pdga.com/files/documents/TourStandards.pdf

[DMajor]

I'm curious what the hourly wage would come out to, if you took all of the hours Jub put in working on the course (for these tournaments) and running both weekends compared to the amount of money he actually pocketed after.

I'm guessing it's not a number very many of us would work for.

[cefire]

My guess, $0.05 per hour - good point Dan!

Another interesting figure:

Number of people playing CSI that were at the last two workparties = 0

Certainly not expecting those living far away to come as they have their own courses to tend to but this is still an interesting stat (edit: this is neither a justification for Jub or the tournament payout or anything but an interesting figure regarding average workparty participation in the area)

[cefire]

Originally Posted by DoubleDees

I feel this is something that might help people realize that playing disc golf for money is pointless.

and fixed this

[DoubleDees]

There is also the 50$ sanctioning i left out. as well as the 50$ insurance.


Andrew you made me lol

[LJ Jubner]

Originally Posted by DoubleDees

65x57=3705
8x57=456
12x57=684
45x57=2565
456/2565=.17.7%

fees are not part of the prize pool.
-----------------
20x57=1140

this is to much money out of the prize pool.
-----------------

Total prize pool= 2556 on the pdga site.

Open Men=1741 38x45 1710
Open Women=185 4x45 180
Master Men=630 14x45 630

according to Jub math there is added money.
----------------------------

if you can read and understand what i just did here you will realize that it doesnt make sense. ive always got along with Jub and dont hold any ill will! I feel this is something that might help people realize that playing pro is pointless.

edit*fixed

Ed I too bear no ill will thats why I posted them early and online. If you really feel playing pro is pointless then running a pro only seems really pointless After all is'nt it just a glorified ace pot?

Here are the totals $1140-$228 (INWs)=$912-$165 (Club)=$747-$171(pDGA)=$576-$112 (Ace)=$464 left /57=$8.10

[DoubleDees]

im curious what the pdga will do if a td takes more than the tour standard amount. im also curious what the feelings are of the other pros who played this event.

[REDFIVE]

I know Jub put in a bunch of time and I thank him for doing this. I had a good time playing the event and know it was only due to jubs work. I have no problem with a TD taking some cash to compensate for their work. However I don't agree with taking more than the winner of the event. I would likely be upset if I traveled to the event and didn't feel that I had a chance to be compensated for my expenses.

The payout may have seemed poor due to the amount of spots that were paid out also. I shot better than 31 players and made a profit of $20.
I became curious as to why 17 out of 38 places were paid with last cash getting $35 when the buy in was $65? I think that last cash should be no less that money back. If you lose any cash you should be losing all your cash. I prefer top heavy prize pools.

I was given the oportunity to speak up about the pay out before the end of the event but decided not to because I wanted to focus on preparing myself for my upcoming round. The pay out was posted but the deduction for pocket was not. Atleast I didn't see it anywhere. Probably for the best because I know there would be players that would be livid about this.

As a player that attempts to profit from playing in tournaments I dont like to see the TD take so much. But as a player that enjoys playing in events I know that TDs should be compensated in some way. Where do we draw the line? Our events don't bring in enough cash to make money for both the players and the TDs. I Think too much money was taken from the pot and the money that was left was spread too thin.

I am not too concerned but not fully ok with it either. I guess it will make me think a bit harder about playing the event next year but it isn't going to keep me out for sure, as of now. I would not travel to the event with the payout spread so thin. Luckily I don't have to worry about that.

Again I thank you Jub for your work. You got $5.00 I can borrow?

[LJ Jubner]

Thanks Chris Your post was well thought out.

The way almost all events are set up now the TD has the opportunity to make more then any contestant. My cut was off the entire field not just one section so comparing it to just the Open winner only seems nit picky. Would you rather I nickled and dimed the purse to death same end but easier to rationalize. I personally asked Dave if $8 per player was too much and he said NO.

I have attached the posted payout sheet from the weekend. The handwritten column on the left is the expense section.

As far as top loading I used the recommended 45% Voalkes formula. I have noticed that no matter how many players or how much they paid the payout is always about the same. I agree that last cash should be your entry fee back minus fee's of course. After all when you pay in it's the events money and up to the TD's to decide where it goes within reason that is.

I am curious why the TD is the only one who is asked to add cash. Unlike the Am's not one open player even considered adding cash or offered to sponsor. Is it because the Am's like extra stuff? or is it because the Pros are use to only playing for their entry fees?

So my question's are
What deductions are you willing to support? Maintenance, Series, club, national (both player and sanctioning), ace, TD?

What deductions are you not willing to support? Maintenance, Series, club national (both player and sanctioning), ace, TD?

Is an Open field Only just a glorified Ace Pot?

What are you willing to part with? like the course being pristine? no trophies?


Needless to say I was available to discuss over the weekend and will be most anytime in the future and yes Chris I can float you a finski

[mine all mine]

Originally Posted by cefire

My guess, $0.05 per hour - good point Dan!

Another interesting figure:

Number of people playing CSI that were at the last two workparties = 0

Certainly not expecting those living far away to come as they have their own courses to tend to but this is still an interesting stat (edit: this is neither a justification for Jub or the tournament payout or anything but an interesting figure regarding average workparty participation in the area)

Um...I attended a work party the week of CSI, helping weed whack the course. It actually affected my play because all the weed whacking inflamed my tendinitis and I had to drop out in the second round. Lesson learned, don't do that the week of the tournament, but I WILL come out and help again just not the week of the tournament.

[Getty]

I consider 4 to be a proper number for prize qualification. I believe the PDGA defines a division as two or more players. You can simply deduct the cost of the prize from the 1st place scrip and call it good.

"This is what you're all playing for, folks. They are sweet!" Jub lifts trophy and speaks on 3/19/11

It now resides in my studio on top of one of my amps, and I think of Dan everytime I see it. It's the only trophy I have that doesn't stay in my game room since Dan and I were occassional musical collaborators, and I'm happy to have a momento of him when I fire up the guitars.

Thanks for the tournament, Jub!

Originally Posted by LJ Jubner

You raise some interesting points
How many players need to be in a field to offer a trophy? Not the division but actual number of players? 2?,3?

My trophies come in two parts the actual trophy and the custom top.

Getty I could have just as easily gave you the custom top ONLY and had it count as a trophy. As far as scrip goes you can still cash it in.

[LJ Jubner]

Originally Posted by cefire

...Number of people playing CSI that were at the last two workparties = 0
...but an interesting figure regarding average work party participation in the area)

Andrew, I know that more Am's showed for the work parties then the Opens did. Aaron Holley comes to mind as the only one to work and play, Bill Clark worked but could not play. I have also noticed more older Am's participate.

Here is the list of volunteers who helped get the course ready
The Bangerz weekend Andrew could you please list them here I would not want to forget anyone

The weekday workers
Am Week of 15 hrs each Cap'n Jack, M.A.M. (Ray) Bill and Aaron, Erik's friend larry

Erik Illg the new course superintendent was invaluable his time and effort was critical.

About 35 hrs of my time was spent with a blower, a rake and a tarp
holes 4,7,8, 9 and 11-18. By doing this now I made it much easier for the grass to grow and easier to and on the mower as the season progresses.