What is an AM?

[Scott]

I pulled this out of one of the upcoming events threads, but I've seen dozens of posts like it over the years:

Cost:
Open: $40.00
Adv.: $30.00
Am.: $20.00
Rec.: $20.00
Jr.: $10.00

Adv, Rec, and Jr are all Am divisions, but for some reason the Intermediate division is singled out as being the Ams. Why is that?

I'm not really going anywhere with this - no big grudge or pulpit speech. Just sort of curious.

[sillybizz]

Originally Posted by Scott

I pulled this out of one of the upcoming events threads, but I've seen dozens of posts like it over the years:

Cost:
Open: $40.00
Adv.: $30.00
Am.: $20.00
Rec.: $20.00
Jr.: $10.00

Adv, Rec, and Jr are all Am divisions, but for some reason the Intermediate division is singled out as being the Ams. Why is that?

I'm not really going anywhere with this - no big grudge or pulpit speech. Just sort of curious.

Maybe this somewhat explains why people with ratings <920 are playing advanced instead of intermediate? Just a thought.

[SMOKIN JOE]

Since the late 80's that is how I've seen it done.
We had three divisions.
Open
Advanced Ametuer
Ameteur
Then Masters and women came along.
Then Jr.'s.
Then all sorts of divisions.
Would the word ameteur after the word advanced be better.

[SMOKIN JOE]

Originally Posted by sillybizz

Maybe this somewhat explains why people with ratings <920 are playing advanced instead of intermediate? Just a thought.

How would this explain that?
It's clearly stated what division to play by your ranking.
Most the people I know that are playing a division above their skill level are trying to learn more from better players.
Playing their home course.
Tired of plastic.

[Matt B.]

Originally Posted by Scott

I pulled this out of one of the upcoming events threads, but I've seen dozens of posts like it over the years:

Cost:
Open: $40.00
Adv.: $30.00
Am.: $20.00
Rec.: $20.00
Jr.: $10.00

Adv, Rec, and Jr are all Am divisions, but for some reason the Intermediate division is singled out as being the Ams. Why is that?

I'm not really going anywhere with this - no big grudge or pulpit speech. Just sort of curious.

It's just sloppy shorthand. Not to be confused with what I do on Hole 2 at Dexter. That's sloppy forehand.

[sillybizz]

Originally Posted by SMOKIN JOE

How would this explain that?
It's clearly stated what division to play by your ranking.
Most the people I know that are playing a division above their skill level are trying to learn more from better players.
Playing their home course.
Tired of plastic.

Maybe it's a pride or ego thing? "At least if I play advanced I won't be called an amateur". Some of it has to do with the wording we use. "Advanced" sounds like someone who isn't a complete noob when actuality playing and competing in advanced takes real skills and time on the course. Intermediate sounds like noobs but there a lot of players in that division that are actually quite good and been playing a long time.

[ChUcK]

I much prefer to be called Am than Intermediate. Intermediate sounds like the middle ground between recreational and remedial.

[Magilla]

Originally Posted by Scott

I pulled this out of one of the upcoming events threads, but I've seen dozens of posts like it over the years:

Cost:
Open: $40.00
Adv.: $30.00
Am.: $20.00
Rec.: $20.00
Jr.: $10.00

Adv, Rec, and Jr are all Am divisions, but for some reason the Intermediate division is singled out as being the Ams. Why is that?

I'm not really going anywhere with this - no big grudge or pulpit speech. Just sort of curious.

Not sure WHY some people call Intermediate...Amateur...???

All Ams are considered Amateurs....Non-PDGA events can call its divisions anything they want, I suppose.
The proper "alignment" and naming can be found at the following site...

Player Division Grid

[Flatroc]

Originally Posted by Magilla

Not sure WHY some people call Intermediate...Amateur...???

All Ams are considered Amateurs....Non-PDGA events can call its divisions anything they want, I suppose.
The proper "alignment" and naming can be found at the following site...

Player Division Grid

I suppose we're still old school down south here because we still go with:
Pro
Advanced
Amateur
I haven't seen a good enough reason to change, because it keeps it simple for our gigs.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by Flatroc

I suppose we're still old school down south here because we still go with:
Pro
Advanced
Amateur
I haven't seen a good enough reason to change, because it keeps it simple for our gigs.

Isn't this confusing? These titles imply that Advanced is not an Amateur division.

[Flatroc]

Originally Posted by Scott

Isn't this confusing? These titles imply that Advanced is not an Amateur division.

Although you may find it confusing, we've actually had little to no problem for the last 20 years or so, as most peeps figure it out rather quickly where they should play.
Maybe they could call it semi-pro instead of advanced.
What's confusing for me is when we run our PDGA gigs and have to try and remember all those abbreviations.

[Flash]

Scott are you stirring the pot?

The post that Magilla made is accurate but why all the divisions PDGA if you don't offer them at Worlds? Advanced divisions are the only trophies handed out at PDGA Worlds events besides Junior!

This is obviously a post made for the entry fee cost break down for an event. Sure Rec could have been lumped into Am but perhaps this is an event that has not offered Rec in the past or maybe the TD was asked about it and wanted to make it clear that Rec was offered. Clearly Junior is separated out due to a cost difference.

My personal opinion is intermediate is a poor choice for a name for a division and there is no good substitute so the PDGA should just use the divisional codes for all am divisions along with the rating break points instead.

I agree with Yose on the player capability break downs, unless there are entry fee differences for the other am divisions to encourage new players to come out and play at a cheaper cost.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by Flash

Scott are you stirring the pot?

Honestly? No. It's something I've seen for a long time and have always been curious about.

When you have one division called Ams and the other called Advanced, it seems to imply that Advanced is not an amatuer division.

[Chuck Kennedy]

Not sure why there's such confusion. The biggest Amateur divisions are formally: Advanced Am, Intermediate Am, Recreational Am and Novice Am. That's no different from the "confusion" when you say you play Master. You don't know if that's Master Pro or Advanced Master Am without the full name. When you are older and say you play Pro, you still don't know if that could be Open Pro, Master Pro or Grandmaster Pro. In my case, it depends on the event.

[LJ Jubner]

I like Am's, Adv, and Age protected

[Uhlman]

One reason the PDGA exists is to standardize the naming conventions and definitions of the divisions, calling a division something else for a PDGA sanctioned event negates that and causes confusion. I also feel that non-PDGA sanctioned events should strive to follow the same naming conventions for their divisions to reduce confusion. I think intermediate is a good word for the division as it you are not ready for more advanced play but are at a level that is better than the average recreational or casual player.

[Flatroc]

Originally Posted by Uhlman

One reason the PDGA exists is to standardize the naming conventions and definitions of the divisions, calling a division something else for a PDGA sanctioned event negates that and causes confusion. I also feel that non-PDGA sanctioned events should strive to follow the same naming conventions for their divisions to reduce confusion. I think intermediate is a good word for the division as it you are not ready for more advanced play but are at a level that is better than the average recreational or casual player.

I think that if we offered divisions like.... MM1's, MA2's, FW1's, PM's or ETC.'s, at our non sanctioned SOWS gigs, we would end up with mucho mas WTF's.

[Uhlman]

Originally Posted by Flatroc

I think that if we offered divisions like.... MM1's, MA2's, FW1's, PM's or ETC.'s, at our non sanctioned SOWS gigs, we would end up with mucho mas WTF's.

I meant the class and division name not the division code i.e. Pro Open, Amateur Advanced, Amateur Advanced Grandmaster Women, Pro Sr. Legend. There shouldn’t be much confusion with that… should there?

[Toby Puttzinski]

No... I mean yes. I mean, I could care less. No, I mean, I couldn't care less.

Don't take that wrong> just making a play on words... I agree that 'intermediate' is a good label. AM I & AM II seems to be one that could be confused easily... was that how the pdga refered to Advanced and Intermediate divisions at one point?

Why do we say 'taking a crap? Aren't we actually leaving a crap?' ...censored version of George Karlin joke.

[Flatroc]

Originally Posted by Toby Puttzinski

No... I mean yes. I mean, I could care less. No, I mean, I couldn't care less.

Don't take that wrong> just making a play on words... I agree that 'intermediate' is a good label. AM I & AM II seems to be one that could be confused easily... was that how the pdga refered to Advanced and Intermediate divisions at one point?

Why do we say 'taking a crap? Aren't we actually leaving a crap?' ...censored version of George Karlin joke.

Toby,
Am I and II worked in the old days because there were less players and even less baggermeisters.
I don't like Intermediate because it's too long of a word and it's easy to spell wrong and then those darn grammar oinkers jump all over your post and hijack the shit out of it.
cya @ 's