What do you folks think of this...

[DexterHawk]

Nate told me about this and then I saw this post...
We have lost two course (both at stick golf courses) in Eugene this year and I'd imagine that these problems might have contributed here as well.

From the PDGA Board.

Hey all,

It is with great sorrow that I announce that after 5+ years of diligent planning and hard work, the Red Hawk Disc Golf Course at the Plantation Inn is expected to come out of the ground in mid to late January.

With new ownership taking over 2 years ago, I look back now with the vision of hind sight and realize that it was just a matter of time, as the new ownership was heading in a different direction, but I also realize that sometimes disc golfers are their own worst enemy and can speed up a process or even nullify the hard work of others by being foolish and ultimately, selfish.

Because there is an ongoing investigation (with help from the PDGA) into the problems encountered during the Players Cup, I will not comment further on the specifics (namely who) of the reasons that the Plantation Inn gave during the final meeting, but here were the 3 primary complaints:

~Overwhelming smell of marijuana in the hotel and on the course
~Destruction of hotel property
~Lack of respect for course rules - dress code, golf cart abuse, overall conduct

Typically I would not indulge those who wish us harm by shedding some light on the details, but since I lost a course and collectively, we lost the home for a PDGA major, I think it's appropriate. I would like to state that this range of violations came from players, spectators and, much to my dismay, even from some staff members, but no one party is more to blame than the other in my opinion as I look at it as a "group effort". In all fairness, most of these violations were never brought to my attention by the hotel staff until 2 weeks after the Players Cup during a meeting and thus proves to me that hotel was hoarding the information to use in their case to dissolve our relationship, but I really can't even blame them.

I am currently working on several deals to try and find a home for the baskets before we pull the course to make the transition quicker and easier. This is the primary reason that I don't have a specific date yet that course is coming out and hopefully the Plantation Inn will grant me a bit more time to complete a deal. With that being said, we are also going to be looking for a new home for the Players Cup, a process that is already in the works.

I would like to thank Discraft and all of those who helped along the way for this truly special opportunity, Red Hawk, you will be missed...

[Magilla]

That SUCKS.........

[Leftybagger]

That is trully a shame. I can not blame them however. Disc golfers will be their own undoing until the realization is that most do not appreciate the drug use and ratty and casual attire. I have no problem with people smoking, but come on!!! Do it away from the course and during the ENTIRE event.

[Ol' Bob]

I'll drink to that!

[snap7times]

Maybe we need to start assigning tournament officials to wander the course during rounds DQ'ing players who smoke during the rounds? I have never seen anyone be DQ'd because of this but it would be good if we start encouraging each other to hold off the puffing until after the round and especially not inside a hotel. Sounds retarded but it's gotta start somewhere... Dang..

[Ol' Bob]

Not being a smoker myself, I still feel required to comment on how the prohibition of a mild intoxicant has harmed this country on so many levels.

Originally Posted by Abraham Lincoln

Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded.

[Jet]

Originally Posted by snap7times

Maybe we need to start assigning tournament officials to wander the course during rounds DQ'ing players who smoke during the rounds? I have never seen anyone be DQ'd because of this but it would be good if we start encouraging each other to hold off the puffing until after the round and especially not inside a hotel. Sounds retarded but it's gotta start somewhere... Dang..

I played at the Rose City Open in 2007 and I remember there was a guy who was monitoring players during the tournament and one player got removed from the event. I think he was drinking during the round.

[NWDiscer]

Originally Posted by DexterHawk

~Overwhelming smell of marijuana in the hotel and on the course
~Destruction of hotel property
~Lack of respect for course rules - dress code, golf cart abuse, overall conduct

so all the responses here have been fvvcking pot smokers............

yea lets not see the "DESTRUCTION of Hotel Property" ie "DRUNK AS SHIT" Idiots ................... or the "Lack of Respect of the course rules"............golf cart abuse and people wearing wife beaters in fla. no way say it isnt so... and if the Dress Codes were not enforced at this "PDGA Major" then THE TD IS AT FAULT no1 else????

It is sad to see another disc course get pulled, but lets make sure the right "people" are being BLAMED.

[NWDiscer]

Originally Posted by Ol' Bob

Not being a smoker myself, I still feel required to comment on how the prohibition of a mild intoxicant has harmed this country on so many levels.

Originally Posted by Abraham Lincoln
Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded.


SING IT Bob SING IT to the RAFTERS an RAISE THE ROOF......

[LJ Jubner]

It seems to me that there is enough blame to go around (several times)

The idea of having undercover offical should really be left up to the professionals ie the cops. Same with enforcement if you see someone doing something they are not supposed to call the cops. It's not up to the TD to enfoce the laws. I attended the first known enforcement of the no 420 rule and it was not pretty. The TD was placed in an akward position by all who were involved and the person who complained was treated brutally for no reason other by enforceing the rules.

In the last FDGN S. Sinclair scribed a very good article about how ..."you as a player represent all who paid to play"... and ..."therefore should not be affarid of being the bad guy by enforcing all the rules."...

I agree that the TD does bare some responsabilty in the attire/course conduct issues.

The Hotel had the right to call the cops but chose to end the relationship instead. I have always wondered why DG are so casual in public. After all it's against the law.

I personally think instead of busting them for smoking, Why not stroke em for not being ready.

ie Your group finishes a hole and go to the next tee. Player 3 stops for a bowl. At the tee the scores are recorded. Player 3 is called, after 30 seconds no answer. Player 3 gets a 7 . (He was not there to say otherwise.) When it's his turn to drive and he still is not there after 30 seconds another 7.(He has lots of time now because he goes to the next tee and waits.) By then he has either decide to leave on his own or that it may not be worth it to..."pay and and party"

Don't dish out a $5000 fine for a $50 crime

[Adam Schneider]

Keep the legalization debate out of this, guys. Pot isn't legal, and it's not going to be anytime in the near future. It's also against PDGA rules. And regardless of my or your personal feelings on the matter, the general public typically doesn't like it when people are toking up in public parks.

These are facts. If you want to see more disc golf courses and more support for DG events from corporate and/or public entities, acknowledge these facts and act appropriately. If you want to see it made legal, do what you can on the political front: write letters, hold rallies, pass out flyers -- but simply smoking a defiant bowl and bitching on a disc golf forum isn't going to help anyone.


Also, everyone should always remember this: these forums are easily Google-able. When disc golfers wanted to put a course in Sequim, Washington, the anti-disc golf folks lit a fire under their side by finding disrespectful disc golfers' postings on ODSA and elsewhere.

[proto something or other]

Originally Posted by Adam Schneider

Keep the legalization debate out of this, guys. Pot isn't legal, and it's not going to be anytime in the near future. It's also against PDGA rules. And regardless of my or your personal feelings on the matter, the general public typically doesn't like it when people are toking up in public parks.

These are facts. If you want to see more disc golf courses and more support for DG events from corporate and/or public entities, acknowledge these facts and act appropriately. If you want to see it made legal, do what you can on the political front: write letters, hold rallies, pass out flyers -- but simply smoking a defiant bowl and bitching on a disc golf forum isn't going to help anyone.


Also, everyone should always remember this: these forums are easily Google-able. When disc golfers wanted to put a course in Sequim, Washington, the anti-disc golf folks lit a fire under their side by finding disrespectful disc golfers' postings on ODSA and elsewhere.

I agree with this post from beginning to end.

[papatart]

As a player I attended every Players Cup at Red Hawk. It is truly a shame to see the work of Mike Barnett and his crew go to waste. A truly beautiful course that I NEVER got to tame and now I will never have another chance.

Adam, I appreciate your sentiments as a voice of reason. I was a person who made a stand in a tournament and went to the TD who the took action. Was it easy? No, and after the TD told me I (not the offeneders) was putting him in a horrible position he did DQ players and I was vilified for years and people still carry feelings of angst toward me. That being said, I would never do anything different and still feel I made an overall positive impact on players and disc golf in the Northwest.

However, if the sport is to grow it needs to get more mainstream acceptance. The true growth will happen in schools and until we get rid of the stigma (true or untrue) of disc golfers and illegal behavior, this will never happen.

Folks, help support your sport and understand the need for appropriate actions at apporpriate times.....we'll keep more courses and grow our fledgling sport!

Later,
Papa

[snap7times]

I agree with the above, don't try to lessen the crime of puffing and drinking during playing DG. Some of us have little kids that are really getting good at DG and it would be a shame if they can't play it often because we have to worry about those who view DG as a party sport being at the course and our kids see this stuff. I didn't even see marijuana in person till after I graduated High School, I would like the same concept to apply to our kids.
Be nice if in less than 10 years, Disc Golf becomes a recognized varsity sport in High School, to do that, we need to curb the sterotype that Disc Golf has.

[Ol' Bob]

Stick golfers have always drunk (the adults, anyway). Anyone can intuit that a certain level of sobriety probably won't hurt their game. If anyone get's stoned or drunk to the point of foolishness, who profits? Will the kids turn out better for being shielded from the fools? Should the folks who wish to provide such a shield take the field from the adults, or vice verse?

Read Smoke and Mirrors: The War On Drugs and the Politics of Failure, by Dan Baum

[Sausage Fingers]

Originally Posted by snap7times

I didn't even see marijuana in person till after I graduated High School, I would like the same concept to apply to our kids.

Wow. I was 8 in 1973.

Originally Posted by papatart

That being said, I would never do anything different and still feel I made an overall positive impact on players and disc golf in the Northwest.

UNDERSTATEMENT! When I consider the list of people who have positively impacted disc golf in the Northwest you are definitely in the top group!

[Ol' Bob]

Yes, the good old days when only the darkies and wetbacks ever witnessed the killer weed. I too long for those better times, when John Wayne and Ronald Reagan bravely served our country on the big screen.

[snap7times]

Originally Posted by Ol' Bob

Stick golfers have always drunk (the adults, anyway). Anyone can intuit that a certain level of sobriety probably won't hurt their game. If anyone get's stoned or drunk to the point of foolishness, who profits? Will the kids turn out better for being shielded from the fools? Should the folks who wish to provide such a shield take the field from the adults, or vice verse?

Read Smoke and Mirrors: The War On Drugs and the Politics of Failure, by Dan Baum

Stick golf may have it's sterotype of drinking etc but however, they are already big on sponsors and money etc.
Disc Golf needs to climb up the ladder for a while before we can loosen up on our sterotypes I would think...

[BlarneyStoner]

Originally Posted by Ol' Bob

Yes, the good old days when only the darkies and wetbacks ever witnessed the killer weed. I too long for those better times, when John Wayne and Ronald Reagan bravely served our country on the big screen.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Jet

I played at the Rose City Open in 2007 and I remember there was a guy who was monitoring players during the tournament and one player got removed from the event. I think he was drinking during the round.

I think that that was my friend Dominic... who wasn't playing in the event and got removed from the park by a guy in a uniform.

I have no recollection of someone being removed from the 2007 RCO... and you'd think I would.