Team Disc Golf Rules

[Sausage Fingers]

Here's a copy of last year's rules for new people who are interested:

1. Teams

1.1. Team Disc Golf 07-08 will consist of 10 teams in 2 divisions: East & West. Each team will compete in Match Play against each of the other teams once.

1.1.1. Each team must consist of 7 players. Any 7 players can make up a team, but players on the starting roster are the only ones eligible to compete for your team all year long.
1.1.2. There are no substitutes or replacement players allowed, even due to injury.

1.2. Division assignment will be by random draw.

1.2.1. The East division champion will play the West Division champion one match for the Team Disc Golf Championship. At the same Championship match all of the other teams will play off for 3rd through 10th place finishes.

1.2.1.1. The team in each division with the most Match Points will be the division champion.
1.2.1.1.1. First Tie Breaker will be Head-to-Head Match Points.
1.2.1.1.2. Second Tie Breaker will be Total Head-to-Head strokes.
1.2.1.1.3. Third Tie Breaker will be higher Team rating total.
1.2.1.1.4. Fourth Tie Breaker will be coin flip.

2. Player Ratings

2.1. Each team member has a Player Rating. That player rating will be determined by the PDGA Rating of the player to begin the Team Disc Golf season.

2.1.1. For any player who does not have a current PDGA player rating the TDG committee shall come to a consensus using experience and personal knowledge, as to the rating the player will play under.

2.1.2. Player ratings will be modified during the season based on play. Players who compete in singles matches will have their ratings adjusted for the following event.

2.1.3. When the PDGA player rating update happens in November, those ratings will be used at the next event replacing the modified ratings from the previous event for PDGA members.

2.2. Handicap: When a player with a higher rating plays against a player with a lower rating the higher rated player has a handicap based on the difference between the ratings during their singles match.

2.2.1. Based on the SSA of the course being played the number of rating points per stroke are determined:
SSA of 42-43 = 14 ratings points per stroke
SSA of 44-45 = 13 ratings points per stroke
SSA of 46-47 = 12 ratings points per stroke
SSA of 48-49 = 11 ratings points per stroke
SSA of 50-54 = 10 ratings points per stroke
SSA of 55-59 = 9 ratings points per stroke
SSA of 60-64 = 8 ratings points per stroke
SSA of 65-67 = 7 ratings points per stroke
SSA of 68-71 = 6 ratings points per stroke

2.3. In the doubles rounds the ratings are added together and divided in half rounded down. THIS RULE WILL CHANGE!!!!

2.3.1. Team 1 fields a 940 rated player and a 903 rated player for a doubles rating of 921 ( 940+903/2=921.5) while Team 2 fields a 975 rated player and a 797 rated player for a doubles rating of 886 (975+797/2=886). On a course with a 50 SSA Team 1 has a 3 stroke handicap (921-886/10=3.5).

3. Match Play

3.1. We will follow the PDGA Rule Book for Singles and Best Shot Doubles competition with regard to actual play. If it's in their rule book then that's how we'll deal with it. 804.05 A(4) is not used during Team Disc Golf.

3.2. A match consists of two rounds, a doubles round and a singles round. In each round a team can use any four players on its roster.

3.3. Each match will have a “Home Team” for the purposes of selecting the match-ups only; there is no other use for the “Home Team” designation.

3.3.1. In Round One the Visiting Team selects the players who will compete in the doubles round first. Then the Home Team selects the players who compete against them.

3.3.2. In Round Two the Home Team selects the players who will compete in the singles round first. Then the Visiting Team selects the players who compete against them.

3.4. In both rounds the Visiting Team throws first until they lose the tee.

3.5. All tied doubles matches will not play to a decision using sudden death. The 2 Match Points shall be split evenly.

3.6. All singles matches must play to a decision using sudden death if necessary, starting on the next logical hole from where you ended the match. Do not return to central, just play on to finish it.

3.7. The only exception to this rule is in case of darkness. The match can be called due to darkness as a tie with the point being split evenly between the teams.

4. Scoring

4.1. Each doubles match is worth 2 points and each singles match is worth 1 point for a total of 4 points possible per round.

4.1.1. If less than 4 players are available, you can field what you have and forfeit the match points for matches you don’t have players to compete. All forfeited matches count as 108 strokes towards any tie breaker.

4.1.1.1. In Doubles: One person can play California, picking the better of two drives on each hole, playing the hole out normally from there. THIS RULE MAY CHANGE

4.1.1.2. The most a single player can win is 3 match points (2 in doubles (1 Cali) and 1 in singles match).

4.1.1.3. 2 players can win as many as 7 match points (4 in doubles (2 Cali) and 2 in singles plus match point).

4.1.1.4. 3 players can win as many as 8 match points (4 in doubles (1 Cali) and 3 in singles plus match point).

4.2. Match Point: The team with the most points earns 1 extra point for winning the match.

4.2.1. Ties: In the event of a 4-4 tie, all strokes, including handicap strokes, from the round are added up by each team and the team with the lowest number of total strokes wins the match point.
4.2.1.1. If that is tied then lower total team rating wins the match point.

4.3. GBP Team Bonus: One (1) bonus point is awarded to any team that plays all 7 of its team members in a match. In other words, if your team has seven people and all seven of them play in at least one round during a match, your team receives one bonus point. The Team bonus point is not awarded until after the Match Point is decided.

5. Schedule:

5.1. All teams will play 9 matches over the course of the Team Disc Golf season from October to February. All teams will play their matches on the same day at the same course. The 7 courses to be used in Team Disc Golf this year are: Riverbend, Timber, Dabney, Pier, Rooster Rock, Sorosis and Trojan.

5.2. The start time for the first round of doubles is usually 10 am. In the months with shorter daylight that can be as early as 9 am. The start time of the second round of singles is 1 pm allowing for a lunch break.

5.2.1. Optionally the second round can start immediately after the first round with the approval of the two team captains.

5.3. Team Disc Golf matches will be held on Sundays:
5.3.1. Week 1 - Sunday October 21st: Trojan Park – Doubles/Singles 18 holes
5.3.1.1. Match-up: W5-BWvE1-TN, W1-CWSvE2-VT, E3-GBPvE5-VBD, W3-WSvW2-PT, E4-GBSvDH
5.3.2. Week 2 - Sunday November 4th: Sorosis Park – Doubles/Singles 18 holes
5.3.2.1. Match-up: E2-VTvE3-GBP, E5-VBDvW1-CWS, E1-TNvW2-PT, W3-WSvW4-DH, E4-GBSvW5-BW
5.3.3. Week 3 - Sunday November 18th: Dabney State Park – Doubles/Singles 18 holes
5.3.3.1. Match-up: E4-GBSvE1-TN, W2-PTvE2-VT, W1-CWSvE3-GBP, W4-DHvE5-VBD, W5-BWvW3-WS
5.3.4. Week 4 - Sunday December 2nd: Rooster Rock State Park – Doubles: East 9 twice, Singles: West 9 twice
5.3.4.1. Match-up: E2-VTvE1-TN, E3-GBPvE4-GBS, W3-WSvW1-CWS, W4-DHvW2-PT, E5-VBDvW5-BW
5.3.5. Week 5 - Sunday December 16th: Riverbend @ Milo McIver State Park – Doubles: 18 holes TBD, Singles 18 holes TBD
5.3.5.1. Match-up: E5-VBDvE1-TN, W3-WSvE2-VT, W4-DHvE3-GBP, W2-PTvE4-GBS, W5-BWvW1-CWS
5.3.6. Week 6 - Sunday January 13th: Timber Park - Doubles/Singles 18 holes
5.3.6.1. Match-up: W1-CWSvE4-GBS, E3-GBPvw2-PT, E5-VBDvW3-WS, E1-TNvW4-DH, E2-VTvW5-BW
5.3.7. Week 7 - Sunday January 27th: Pier Park - Doubles/Singles 18 holes
5.3.7.1. Match-up: W1-CWSvE1-TN, E4-GBSvE5-VBD, W5-BWvW2-PT, E3-GBPvW3-WS, E2-VT-W4-DH
5.3.8. Week 8 - Sunday February 10th: Adair County Park – Doubles/Singles 18 holes
5.3.8.1. Match-up: E2-VTvE4-GBS, W2-PTvE5-VBD, W4-DHvW1-CWS, E1-TNvW3-WS, E3-GBPvW5-BW
5.3.9. Week 9 - Sunday February 24th: Course TBD – Doubles: 18 holes TBD, Singles 18 holes TBD
5.3.9.1. Match-up: E5-VBDvE2-VT, E1-TNvE3-GBP, W2-PTvW1-CWS, E4-GBSvW3-WS, W5-BWvW4-DH

5.4. The 2 teams that win their divisions will play one match to decide the Team Disc Golf Championship. The second place teams play off for third, the third place teams play off for fifth, etc.
5.4.1. Championship Week - Saturday March 15th: Championships: Riverbend @ Milo McIver State Park – Doubles: 18 holes TBD, Singles 18 holes TBD

6. Late Penalty:

6.1. After 30 minutes a team is considered late and you may begin your round. Score each hole of the opposing team with 7's until they arrive at the tee of whatever hole you are next playing

6.2. If the opposing team member has not arrived by the time you have reached the 18th hole of the Doubles round they forfeit the opportunity to play in the Singles round.

Please let me know if you have any ideas about changes we should make. I know that I am doing doubles different but still not keen on a better way to do it. A suggestion to increase the Cali to one extra shot per hole instead of 2 drives also has been made. Any opinions? YAR!

[Wes Hansen]

Are there any spots on a team playing Sundays?
When do you plan to have this year's schedule up?
Was it decided that there is NO Saturday TDG?
(I thought I heard you say NO Saturday because no one volunteered to lead Saturdays?
I would do it if they fell on my without my son weekends, and if my presence didn't discourage people from playing.)
Sausage fingers? I always think of you as dainty.

[Sausage Fingers]

The answers to your questions are in the other thread. This thread is for discussing the rules and possible rules changes.

[Wes Hansen]

I believe the rules are clearly and wonderfully written.
While I am not a current TDG player... if the proposed rule change would be to create a "two players needed to play doubles," then I believe the rule master has come up with yet another example of how to increase the T aspect of TDG. Well thought out. I conclude by apologizing for not thoroughly reading all threads prior to posting here previously.

[Sausage Fingers]

Originally Posted by Wes Hansen

Iif the proposed rule change would be to create a "two players needed to play doubles," then I believe the rule master has come up with yet another example of how to increase the T aspect of TDG.

While in a perfect world every team would field all 7 of their players each event, these rules have been necessary each and every year during TDG.

If I knew I had a hardcore group of players I'd think of upping the competition with 3 dubs matches and 6 singles matches each event. But that punishes the teams that don't field all players too harshly for a winter series.

[Sausage Fingers]

Here's my thoughts on this year's rules:

1. Teams

1.1. Team Disc Golf 08-09 will consist of 8 teams in 2 divisions: East & West. Each team will compete in Match Play against each of the other teams once.

1.1.1. Each team must consist of 7 players. Any 7 players can make up a team, but players on the starting roster are the only ones eligible to compete for your team all year long.
1.1.2. There are no substitutes or replacement players allowed, even due to injury.

1.2. Division assignment will be determined by seeding by scores at the first event.

1.2.1. The East division champion will play the West Division champion one match for the Team Disc Golf Championship. At the same Championship match all of the other teams will play off for 3rd through 8th place finishes.

1.2.1.1. The team in each division with the most Match Points will be the division champion.
1.2.1.1.1. First Tie Breaker will be Head-to-Head Match Points.
1.2.1.1.2. Second Tie Breaker will be Total Head-to-Head strokes.
1.2.1.1.3. Third Tie Breaker will be higher Team rating total.
1.2.1.1.4. Fourth Tie Breaker will be coin flip.

2. Player Ratings

2.1. Each team member has a Player Rating. A player's current PDGA Rating sets the beginning rating the Team Disc Golf season.

2.1.1. For any player who does not have a current PDGA player rating, the score in the first event shall set their player rating. If they are returning players, that score will be averaged with their final ratings from last year.

2.1.2. Player ratings will be modified during the season based on play. All player's matches will adjust their ratings for the following event.

2.1.3. When a PDGA player rating update happens, those ratings will be used at the next event replacing the modified ratings from the previous event for PDGA members.

2.2. Handicap: When a player with a higher rating plays against a player with a lower rating the higher rated player has a handicap based on the difference between the ratings during their singles match.

2.2.1. Based on the SSA of the course being played the number of rating points per stroke are determined:
SSA of 42-43 = 14 ratings points per stroke
SSA of 44-45 = 13 ratings points per stroke
SSA of 46-47 = 12 ratings points per stroke
SSA of 48-49 = 11 ratings points per stroke
SSA of 50-54 = 10 ratings points per stroke
SSA of 55-59 = 9 ratings points per stroke
SSA of 60-64 = 8 ratings points per stroke
SSA of 65-67 = 7 ratings points per stroke
SSA of 68-71 = 6 ratings points per stroke

2.2.1. Team 1 fields a 940 rated player while Team 2 fields a 975 rated player (975-940=35). On a course with a 50 SSA Team 2 has a 3 stroke handicap (35/10=3.5).

3. Match Play

3.1. We will follow the PDGA Rule Book for Singles and Best Shot Doubles competition with regard to actual play. If it's in their rule book then that's how we'll deal with it. 804.05 A(4) is not used during Team Disc Golf.

3.2. A match consists of two rounds of four singles matches. In each round a team can use any four players on its roster.

3.2.1 Bonus Match - If, after fielding 4 players in any 1 round, a team can field two other players they can compete for an extra point by playing a doubles round.

3.2.2 If the opponent cannot field two extra players, they may have 1 extra player play Cali. If the opponent has no extra players they forfeit the Bonus Match point.

3.2.3 If neither team can field the two extra players the Bonus Match point cannot be earned.

3.3. Each match will have a “Home Team” for the purposes of selecting the match-ups only; there is no other use for the “Home Team” designation.

3.3.1. In Round One the Visiting Team selects the players who will compete in the round first. Then the Home Team selects the players who compete against them.

3.3.2. In Round Two the Home Team selects the players who will compete in the round first. Then the Visiting Team selects the players who compete against them.

3.4. In both rounds the Visiting Team throws first until they lose the tee.

3.5. All tied morning matches will not play to a decision using sudden death. The Match Point shall be split evenly.

3.6. All afternoon matches must play to a decision using sudden death if necessary, starting on the next logical hole from where you ended the match. Do not return to central, just play on to finish it.

3.7. The only exception to this rule is in case of darkness. The match can be called due to darkness as a tie with the point being split evenly between the teams.

4. Scoring

4.1. Each match is worth 1 point for a total of 4 points possible per round.

4.1.1. If less than 4 players are available, you can field what you have and forfeit the match points for matches you don’t have players to compete. All forfeited matches count as 108 strokes towards any tie breaker.

4.1.1.1. In Doubles: One person can play California, picking only one shot on each hole to take a second throw.

4.2. Match Point: The team with the most points earns 1 extra point for winning the match.

4.2.1. Ties: In the event of a tie, all strokes, including handicap strokes, from the round are added up by each team and the team with the lowest number of total strokes wins the match point.

4.2.1.1. If that is tied then lower total team rating wins the match point.

4.3. GBP Team Bonus: One bonus point is awarded to any team that plays all 7 of its team members in a match. In other words, if your team has seven people and all seven of them play in at least one round during a match, your team receives one bonus point. The Team bonus point is not awarded until after the Match Point is decided.

5. Schedule:

5.1. All teams will play 7 matches over the course of the Team Disc Golf season from October to February. All teams will play their matches on the same day at the same course. The 7 courses to be used in Team Disc Golf this year are: Riverbend, Timber, Dabney, Pier, Adair, Sorosis and Trojan.

5.2. The start time for the first round starts at 10 am. In the months with shorter daylight that can be as early as 8:30 or 9 am. The start time of the second round is 1 pm allowing for a lunch break.

5.2.1. Optionally the second round can start immediately after the first round with the approval of the two team captains.

5.3. Team Disc Golf matches will be held on Sundays:
5.3.1. Prelims - Sunday October 19th: Pier Park – 2 rounds of 18 holes
5.3.1.1. Match-up: All play singles to set ratings and seed divisions
5.3.2. Week 1 - Sunday November 2nd: Sorosis Park – 2 rounds of 18 holes
5.3.2.1. Match-up: TBD
5.3.3. Week 2 - Sunday November 16th: Riverbend @ Milo McIver State Park – 2 rounds of 18 holes
5.3.3.1. Match-up: TBD
5.3.4. Week 3 - Sunday November 30th: Adair County Park – 2 rounds of 18 holes
5.3.4.1. Match-up: TBD
5.3.5. Week 4 - Sunday December 7th: Dabney State Park – 2 rounds of 18 holes
5.3.5.1. Match-up: TBD
5.3.6. Week 5 - Sunday January 4th: Timber Park - 2 rounds of 18 holes
5.3.6.1. Match-up: TBD
5.3.7. Week 6 - Sunday January 18th: Pier Park - 2 rounds of 18 holes
5.3.7.1. Match-up: TBD
5.3.8. Week 7 - Sunday February 8th: Trojan Park – 2 rounds of 18 holes
5.3.8.1. Match-up: TBD

5.4. The 2 teams that win their divisions will play one match to decide the Team Disc Golf Championship. The second place teams play off for third, the third place teams play off for fifth and the fourth place teams play off for seventh.
5.4.1. Championship Week - Sunday February 22nd: Championships: Riverbend @ Milo McIver State Park – 2 rounds of 18 holes

6. Late Penalty:

6.1. When start is called you may begin your round. Score each hole of the opposing team with 7's until they arrive at the tee of a hole that no second shots have been taken.

6.2. If the opposing team member has not arrived by the time you have reached the 18th hole of the first round they forfeit the opportunity to play in the second round. THINKING OF DROPPING THIS RULE

After some talking at WOX I have come up with this set of rules for the new year. Instead of coming up with a change for handicapping doubles, I decided to just make the whole thing singles matches. This also should help with ratings as every round played will effect your rating. No more hiding in the dubs to keep an artificially low rating, Chompy.

So this is the official call out to all teams! Get your line-ups in ASAP. The league went from 12 openings to only 8.
I know lineups for 3 teams:
Good Bad & Sassy
Jordan Lewis 923
Gawain Stern 919
Jeff Elliott 937
Jamie Gibson ???
Sam Gibson ???
Teresa Bellinger 891
Cris Bellinger ???

Green Bowl Packers
Same Baggers as last year

Vapor Trail
George Adams 841
James Moore 967?
Chris Graham 901?
Patrick Darr 890
Jim Nims ???
Roger Anderson ???
Lonel Greene 878

I have heard talk from Putt This!, Dark Horse and Big Winds. New teams like Asshole Casserole, Lunchtime Leaguers and Rockwood Roughnecks. If we had a Saturday league I know of a couple of other teams that might join.
I need final rosters from any other returning teams and then maybe a few new teams can join in. I did get a couple of inquiries about running the Saturday side of Team Disc Golf. I think that there will be teams left out again this year if nobody steps up. YAR!

[Carie CPink]

What? No doubles? That's my fave part about TDG!

[Sausage Fingers]

Originally Posted by Carie CPink

What? No doubles? That's my fave part about TDG!

I couldn't come up with a good way to handicap the dubs. And the bonus is that all rounds now effect your rating. That solves 2 problems right there.

I am still open to suggestions. But I think I am liking the way this settles.

[Celeste]

So two singles rounds? I assumed I read that wrong with all the dubs rules still in there. Bummer. I think it gives you that warm fuzzy team feeling.

[Pizzel]

Originally Posted by Celeste

So two singles rounds? Bummer. I think it gives you that warm fuzzy team feeling.

Agreed!

[Kevin Madrid]

Originally Posted by Pizzel

Agreed!

Agreed!...This takes out team play...how is the Ryder cup played? ...with two people playing together for one score. You can change how doubles is played we could play it Ryder cup style...different every week and maybe in the finals everyone plays singles.

[Sam]

I like all singles and think that this is a good move.

[jevon]

What would the timing be with all singles? As I understood it, in the past, the morning was singles and the afternoon was doubles. If someone couldn't make it in the morning they could play doubles later, or they could play singles and leave to get to grandma's for dinner if need be. Will all seven play two rounds of singles?

[Jeff Hemmerling]

Removing doubles from match play is a big mistake. That's why this is a team league. I had no problem with your (Jordan's) doubles rating proposal that penalized pairings with a large rating difference. Or simply rate the team at 75% or 66% of the rating difference.

[Sausage Fingers]

OK, first off: How does Team Disc Golf equal playing doubles? TDG to me is my team playing your team, the format is irrelevant, and this isn't the Ryder Cup, nor is it trying to be.

As I see it, there were 2 problems with the Dubs in TDG last year.

1. The handicapping system was broken and a team could pair their highest rated player with their lowest rated player and GET strokes from an opponent that couldn't beat them straight up.

2. The non-current PDGA player could 'hide' all year long in dubs and never have their rating change due to TDG play. So a low rated player who plays above their rating exacerbates problem #1.

By playing the 4 matches/round as all singles every round gets rated and effects the player's rating for the next event.

And because we all love the dubs, I have a provision for a dubs match each round if enough players show up for it. Let me try to explain it better:

In the morning round the Visiting Team selects 4 players to play for 1 match point each in singles. The Home Team matches their players against the Visitors.
If either of the teams have 2 other players present then 1 dubs match can be played for another match point.
If both teams have 2 extra players then they play normal dubs for the match point with no handicap.
If only 1 team has the 2 extra players and the other team only has 1 extra player, that player will play Cali for that match point.
If only 1 team has the 2 extra players and the other team has no extra players they forfeit the match point.
If neither of the teams has 2 extra players the match point cannot be played for.

In the afternoon round the same rules apply only the Home team puts up the match ups first.

So a team that shows up with 6 players each round can win up to 5 match points each round.

[Sam]

No, no... this is a team league in that your results impact 6 other people. Just because there is no doubles doesn't mean that that changes at all.

I definitely think it is worth giving it a try and if it proves unpopular, we could always add doubles back in next year. Anyway, if your team sticks around, you get to play doubles, too...

[Sausage Fingers]

Originally Posted by Jeff Hemmerling

Removing doubles from match play is a big mistake. That's why this is a team league. I had no problem with your (Jordan's) doubles rating proposal that penalized pairings with a large rating difference. Or simply rate the team at 75% or 66% of the rating difference.

The biggest drawback of doing the dubs a different way is the complexity of figuring out the handicaps. I am trying to make the league easier to run so someone can run it on Saturday. If we make it a complex algorithm we'd need a smart disc golfer to step up and run it, and I'm not so sure we have a smart disc golfer running the Sunday side of the league!

[Celeste]

Originally Posted by Sausage Fingers

OK, first off: How does Team Disc Golf equal playing doubles?

And because we all love the dubs, I have a provision for a dubs match each round if enough players show up for it.

I don't think team golf means playing doubles. I think because of playing lots of team sports I have a preconcieved idea of what a team is. I'm sure I can get that warm fuzy team feeling another way.

I like this idea. Those who really want to play dubs (me) have extra incentive to harrass their team into showing up. woo hoo to bonus dubs!

[Kyle]

I agree that we should keep doubles. For me, that's the most 'team' oriented aspect of the matches.

How about this for handicapping doubles, (Since this is what I thought you were suggesting anyway), make a ratings limit for all doubles teams, (say, perhaps their ratings combined could be no lower than 1750 or something), and then ONLY handicap the highest rated players on each doubles team, and make that the TEAM handicap.

I don't know, I'm just spitting against the wall here. I'd really hate to see doubles eliminated.

p.s. - as I recall, when TDG started there were no handicaps, and players were assigned a point value for their 'division'. Perhaps we we go back to that? (I know there were probably problems with said system, but again, just throwing out ideas here.) Kyle

[Sam]

It's NOT being eliminated. It is being used for bonus points.

There will be just as much doubles this year as there was in previous years, in fact.