Riverside facelift

[Mr. Anderson]

For me the main concern of Riverside should be #1 Safety, #2 is a tie...Ease of finding your way around and making the course challenging for a levels of players. Riverside in its old design strikes out on all three.

Criss-crossing multiple courses and even crossing within the same course should never happen. Both cases happened at Riverside. I could spend a half hour at the course and hear "fore!" being yelled a half dozen times. You had to look both ways before you threw your drive and when you were going down the fairway, and when you were putting (pretty much the whole time you were at the course)

When I first played the course earlier this spring there were a few signs at some tee pads, but after I got done playing the hole I hopefully could find another tee sign with in view or I had to search out what possibly could be the correct tee, but the next tee wasn't always labeled. Ease of finding your way around the course was improved a lot when colored coded signs were made along with numbers painted on the baskets. But then you saw that blue 8 and red 9 played to the same goal... hmmm if I'm playing blue 8 where is red 9 throwing from? proceed with caution (duck and cover) Hopefully this issue will be resolved with the approved final design.

As far as challenging disc golfers, Riverside had many different course to test your skill, which was great, but very unsafe. Red and Blue were the courses that were most played and were enjoyed by a lot of people. But they did not challenge all levels of players. And so, people decided to make an Am course, Green course, Orange course etc. etc. Which made for more confusion.

Ultimately I would like to see the best 18 holer possible at Riverside and then "expand" safely by adding alt pads and baskets. It has been stated earlier that multiple tee pads and multiple goals on a shared fairway is one way to have different degrees of challenge within the same course and I totally agree. If 36 baskets are not available multiple sleeves where the basket can be rotated through is another option.

If someone has ideas or insight they would like to share I would love to hear it. Please try to be constructive in your responses. Statements like "it sucks" and "I liked the old course" does not help progression of design. Why does it suck and what you like about the old course is much more helpful.

Done typing

[Mikk]

There are 3 things making issue here. 1 there is a lot of newer players and they like things easy. 2 the "locals" liked having choices and understand the layout of the land and know when to duck. 3 the tourney players know that riverside can become a killer and challenging 18 hole course with the proper setup.
Me? I like option 3. Sometimes I like things easy but it doesn't help me improve my overall play. Fortunately I made quick friends with Greg and other locals so that made it easy to get around. Before I got "in" with some local players Riverside ate my plastic like a fat guy at an all you can eat buffet. If you ask me Riverside "could be" 19 baskets with 2 t-pads per. 1 set am and 1 set pro with the proper SUPPORT from the locals and others.

[dan mc]

After playin the new layout a few times here are a couple things i can see as possible problems #1) alot of blue/red pin positions are still being used. More people were trying to play the course the way they are used too playing it than were playing the new layout. So without removing all teepads no longer being used i don"t see this problem ever going away. So with the even longer fairways that play across several of the old fairways ,a good portion of which are fairly blind the course is as dangerous as ever. #2) Flow the flow of the course is sorta awkward there"s some fairly long walk outs and walking down 13's fairway to get to 14's pad seems aliitle sketchy #3) how is the county and whomever decleard the park a wetlands going to react as the new fair ways get beaten in and can they be maintained properly when they are established. Red and Blue were way cooler the the course getting yanked because the wrong shrub got cut or trampled.

Sorry for sounding so negative , but I think these are fairly valid concerns

[EternalNoob]

Just thought I'd drop in and say something regarding Riverside...As a player that is new to the game and that sucks...BAD...I'd like to say that I enjoy the new course layout. It is frustrating and very challenging but after a time or two around the course I now know where I've got to put the disc. It rarely gets there but practice makes perfect right? There is only one hole that I kinda dislike...10...It ate my favorite driver but that was my fault for sucking. 15 is awesome even though it takes 5 drives for me to even see the pin. It's a nice walk in the park and I'd love to par that mamba jamba. It's my life goal actually! The old layout was confusing at best and had the potential of being very dangerous. I hope that can be resolved.
That being said...As a non paying player (not in the club...yet) I don't have room to talk about changes or even the right to make suggestions regardless of how long I have or have not played there. That should be the clubs stance as well...No pay no say! The club pays for pins and pads. They should decide where they go...Not the people who can scream the loudest.

[REDFIVE]

what has been done is in no way a final product. There is still some work to be done and changes to be made. There will be tee signs and directional guides of some sort. There is a board meeting on wednesday and I hope that the course design will be decided or atleast discussed. The baskets were only put in because todd (pcdgpa riverside rep) was feeling the heat from players at the course. Everything that has been done has been somewhat independent from the club. No decisions have been finalized at this point. I was told we were going with the new design but that is not true. we still might, but options are still open. If you have an opinion make it known because I can assure you I am reading these and will print and bring them to the meeting on wednesday. dont hold back no matter how long you have been playing or how new you are to the course or game. I can assure you that whatever decision is made I am going to do what I can to get it done right.

[Bossman]

"somewhat independent from the club"....So if I become a member, I can
run around moving baskets, tearing down signs, ripping up benches, and covering up perfectly good tee pads?

Sounds like fun. Sign me up.

[dan mc]

Originally Posted by REDFIVE

what has been done is in no way a final product. There is still some work to be done and changes to be made. There will be tee signs and directional guides of some sort. There is a board meeting on wednesday and I hope that the course design will be decided or atleast discussed. The baskets were only put in because todd (pcdgpa riverside rep) was feeling the heat from players at the course. Everything that has been done has been somewhat independent from the club. No decisions have been finalized at this point. I was told we were going with the new design but that is not true. we still might, but options are still open. If you have an opinion make it known because I can assure you I am reading these and will print and bring them to the meeting on wednesday. dont hold back no matter how long you have been playing or how new you are to the course or game. I can assure you that whatever decision is made I am going to do what I can to get it done right.

thank you sir for all your hard work! we may not agree on some things, but i respect your determination to get something done and hopefully your efforts will inspire more of us club members and local disc golfers l to get some shit done.

[REDFIVE]

Originally Posted by Bossman

"somewhat independent from the club"....So if I become a member, I can
run around moving baskets, tearing down signs, ripping up benches, and covering up perfectly good tee pads?

Sounds like fun. Sign me up.

What size shirt do you need boss?

[cefire]

Originally Posted by dan mc

thank you sir for all your hard work! we may not agree on some things, but i respect your determination to get something done and hopefully your efforts will inspire more of us club members and local disc golfers l to get some shit done.

Ditto, someone who can make it happen, get something done. Not just the same-old same-old. The only thing the (hopefully) 'old' Riverside has going for it was that it was always designed like that. Back in 1993, the Scorpion was an 'ultra-long range driver', now ~20 years later I think the course may be due for a little change.

In time, people won't even remember the old pitch'n putt, they'll be attached to the new (& improved course). Happens everywhere, all over the country, or at least the 4 clubs that I've heavily involved with - 6 months after a redesign, everyone is happy and couldn't imagine going back to the dark ages.


This might be another good place to find opinions of others (both who enjoy and do not enjoy the old layout): http://www.dgcoursereview.com/reviews.php?id=742&mode=rev

[Bossman]

Originally Posted by REDFIVE

What size shirt do you need boss?

That would be XL Chris. I'm serious about becoming a member. I'd like to help with the confusion factor.

[discin'4fun]

Per Chris......"Everything that has been done has been somewhat independent from the club...no decisions have been finalized at this point. I was told we were going with the new design but that is not true. we still might, but options are still open. If you have an opinion make it known because I can assure you I am reading these and will print and bring them to the meeting on wednesday. dont hold back no matter how long you have been playing or how new you are to the course or game. I can assure you that whatever decision is made I am going to do what I can to get it done right."[/quote]

I'm not a club member but seeing that things are being done independently of the club (somewhat confusing)--does that mean locals do have a voice in this matter?? I'm not saying that the club shouldn't have the final say, but I do think a sort of "government" setup should listen to the, could we say "peasants" of the land.

Anyway, I'm starting to like the idea of a newly setup course. I wonder about holes going out over the gravel parking lot. Are cars going to be hit? Will the fishermen's space be invaded where people and cars can be hit? Plus, I really do think that BMX should be respected as they played a HUGE part in saving the course by getting the park on the news, writing letters to county reps, etc.

So if those things are taken into consideration when making adjustments to the course, I'm all for some change. It must be pointed out, as well, that the course has been marked several times over the past years, but then washed out by floods. The last hand painted signs put into the ground were very quickly, unfortunately, washed away by the last flood despite being put in with rebar in the wood. Some remain, but many are gone. It would be cool to preserve as much "art" as possible to show respect to those who have given their time to the course.

Thanks for keeping up with these posts, Chris!

[Tim]

I really like the way this conversation is evolving.

[Ol' Bob]

I like the way it's being created.

I know, that added nothing. It's just life in the peanut gallery.

Hoping everything gets sorted painlessly.

[EternalNoob]

So...There is a meeting the 29th?. The site says it's is open to all members. If I show up can I join the club and speak up or ask questions?

If so...Y'all take cash?

[REDFIVE]

Originally Posted by EternalNoob

So...There is a meeting the 29th?. The site says it's is open to all members. If I show up can I join the club and speak up or ask questions?

If so...Y'all take cash?

I don't see why not. I thought it was a board member meeting otherwise I would have posted it as an open member meeting.

[REDFIVE]

Originally Posted by discin'4fun

Per Chris......"Everything that has been done has been somewhat independent from the club...no decisions have been finalized at this point. I was told we were going with the new design but that is not true. we still might, but options are still open. If you have an opinion make it known because I can assure you I am reading these and will print and bring them to the meeting on wednesday. dont hold back no matter how long you have been playing or how new you are to the course or game. I can assure you that whatever decision is made I am going to do what I can to get it done right."

Originally Posted by discin'4fun

I'm not a club member but seeing that things are being done independently of the club (somewhat confusing)--does that mean locals do have a voice in this matter?? I'm not saying that the club shouldn't have the final say, but I do think a sort of "government" setup should listen to the, could we say "peasants" of the land.

Anyway, I'm starting to like the idea of a newly setup course. I wonder about holes going out over the gravel parking lot. Are cars going to be hit? Will the fishermen's space be invaded where people and cars can be hit? Plus, I really do think that BMX should be respected as they played a HUGE part in saving the course by getting the park on the news, writing letters to county reps, etc.

So if those things are taken into consideration when making adjustments to the course, I'm all for some change. It must be pointed out, as well, that the course has been marked several times over the past years, but then washed out by floods. The last hand painted signs put into the ground were very quickly, unfortunately, washed away by the last flood despite being put in with rebar in the wood. Some remain, but many are gone. It would be cool to preserve as much "art" as possible to show respect to those who have given their time to the course.

Thanks for keeping up with these posts, Chris!"

The riverside rep wasn't happy with the lack of progress by the club in getting the baskets ready for install. The rep took it upon himself to get the baskets back from the club and organize to have the baskets theft repelanted and installed back into the course. a group of riverside locals did the work on the baskets and the course. most of these people were not, and still are not, club members. The ideas of a new layout had been talked about but the final design was never chosen by the club. This was a split second decision by a select few as the baskets were being put back in.

the people still have a voice and this voice can be heard at the meeting on wednesday.

The roads will be OB. The fisherman have been taken into account and we are trying to stay away from their area. I had a great talk with Mark who is in charge of the BMX track and he is excited about letting us expand closer to the track. He was very understanding about our want to expand and gave me a few simple guidelines. I got the go ahead to use more area than I had expected. I guess we have to get the ok from the parks department before we can expand. but this is third party info. hopefully this will all be addressed at the meeting.

Anybody that has an opinion that they want to express please come to the meeting. If you are not a current member come anyway and sign up. $20.

You are welcome.

[discin'4fun]

Originally Posted by REDFIVE

The riverside rep wasn't happy with the lack of progress by the club in getting the baskets ready for install. The rep took it upon himself to get the baskets back from the club and organize to have the baskets theft repelanted and installed back into the course. a group of riverside locals did the work on the baskets and the course. most of these people were not, and still are not, club members. The ideas of a new layout had been talked about but the final design was never chosen by the club. This was a split second decision by a select few as the baskets were being put back in.

the people still have a voice and this voice can be heard at the meeting on wednesday.

The roads will be OB. The fisherman have been taken into account and we are trying to stay away from their area. I had a great talk with Mark who is in charge of the BMX track and he is excited about letting us expand closer to the track. He was very understanding about our want to expand and gave me a few simple guidelines. I got the go ahead to use more area than I had expected. I guess we have to get the ok from the parks department before we can expand. but this is third party info. hopefully this will all be addressed at the meeting.

Anybody that has an opinion that they want to express please come to the meeting. If you are not a current member come anyway and sign up. $20.

You are welcome.

I will admit that I and several of my friends left the work party out of disappointment that the creek side was being mowed, because we knew the Pierce County Parks Department had forbidden that area to be mowed and we wanted no part in it. Mark Kilmer and Todd were at the meeting in mid-2008 where the threat of the course being pulled was lifted, with permission to keep using the course as long as we respected the rules they laid down at that time. I am concerned that my hard work and Kilmer's hard work will have been for nothing if things are done outside of the club without adequate knowledge of these rules. Tacoma Disc Golf Association was granted the lease after hard work and persistance, especially by Kilmer and his wife. I don't understand if TDGA has renamed itself as Pierce County Disc Golf Association with the President's agreement, that being Kilmer, or if it is a completely separate club.

Perhaps I misunderstand--was permission granted to mow along the creek side? I hope you are all consulting with Kilmer, whom I believe has more knowledge of the agreement with the County than those who I see are taking action now (if you're not already consulting with him). I put in many, many hours from 2006 to 2008 when the course was in danger of being pulled spending time sending dozens of e-mails to several Parks Department officials, spending much time on the phone and in person with the County and BMX Mark. I would be very disappointed to see our privileges taken away and I just want to ask that you tread carefully with the endeavor of changing the course around. I wish I had time now to participate as much as I did in those two years, but my career is taking precedence now. Joining the club right now is something I hesitate to do until I see that it is an ORGANIZATION with the voted-in board members and President running the show. Please let me know when a Riverside Rep was officially elected via vote.

Putting the baskets back in was wonderful. Further adjustments to the course, as I said, need to be done in the context of County rules or our course may be taken away from us. Allowing us to move closer to the BMX territory will definitely turn Riverside into a more friendly tournament course, where right now it really isn't suitable due to its size.

Well, I just felt the need to voice all of this in an effort to help keep things going, even though I haven't given you $20 to listen to me.

[EternalNoob]

Originally Posted by discin'4fun

Further adjustments to the course, as I said, need to be done in the context of County rules or our course may be taken away from us.

Here, here...

If the fairway on the new proposed 15 or any other hole regarded as a wetland cannot in fact be mowed or maintained in any way (other than invasive species removal) then those areas should be left out of the plan for the sake of future maintenance and a good relationship with the county.

Sorry I mowed the park...Twice. The first time was under guidance at "the work party" where it was clearly stated that no motorized vehicles were allowed...We used walk behinds.

-Kelly

P.S. Just in case I can't make the meeting...Can someone please bring up all the huge dead trees at Riverside to the county? Someone is gonna get seriously hurt or killed. If the county isn't gonna maintain the park they should at least commit to keeping it safe. They need to be dealt with ASAP before the foliage falls off of the live trees which will make it hard to know which is which.

[discin'4fun]

Originally Posted by EternalNoob

Here, here...

If the fairway on the new proposed 15 or any other hole regarded as a wetland cannot in fact be mowed or maintained in any way (other than invasive species removal) then those areas should be left out of the plan for the sake of future maintenance and a good relationship with the county.

Sorry I mowed the park...Twice. The first time was under guidance at "the work party" where it was clearly stated that no motorized vehicles were allowed...We used walk behinds.

-Kelly

P.S. Just in case I can't make the meeting...Can someone please bring up all the huge dead trees at Riverside to the county? Someone is gonna get seriously hurt or killed. If the county isn't gonna maintain the park they should at least commit to keeping it safe. They need to be dealt with ASAP before the foliage falls off of the live trees which will make it hard to know which is which.

I hear ya on that one, Kelly. Those trees definitely need to be taken care of, something I was hoping TDGA would realize. They are required to have liability insurance as part of the lease with the County--but hopefully they can avoid using it by keeping the park safe. I could be wrong about the walk behinds being allowed for mowing, but to my knowledge no mowing was to be done. There are some residents in the area who are keeping an eye on us golfers to make sure Nature is preserved.

[dan mc]

what is considered a motorized vehicle and is the county a little .....pissed? did great intentions become bad things? rumors are we losing her