Disc pricing (MSRP, brick-and-mortar vendors, etc.)

[proto something or other]

I didn't want to start a whole new thread just to post this, so I thought I would post it here, as it seems germane to the discussion.

This is from the PDGA Board and the thread where people ask Dave Dunnipace questions about his discs. This is his answer in response to a question regarding pricing, but it has an interesting take on what the industry needs:

The MSRP for DX is $8.99. For the 3 pack is $28.99. Of course the stores get them for much less or they wouldn't sell them. This being said, we do sell quite a few of these starter sets as it is. When a brick and mortar store sells DX for less than the $8.99 MSRP, it is affecting their ability to stay in business, promote disc golf, and make a profit. We don't sell retail so MSRP doesn't affect us, but it does affect the health of the industry. The things the disc golf industry needs most are brick and mortar outlets, (especially on site pro shops), and more courses. Brick and mortar outlets are vital for the visibility and promotion of disc golf. The thing the industry needs least, is cheap disc pricing, which won't support the other two.

Thoughts?

[Adam Schneider]

I think he's wrong; selling discs below MSRP is "affecting their ability to stay in business"? Please. Some people will always look for cheaper prices, and some will look for convenience or the desire to support local businesses. The marketplace as it is serves both groups.

And I am moving this to a new thread...

[proto something or other]

Originally Posted by Adam Schneider

Some people will always look for cheaper prices, and some will look for convenience or the desire to support local businesses. The marketplace as it is serves both groups.

Adam:

What about his point regarding promotion of the sport? Do you think he makes a valid point about B&M stores being a better promotional tool? Agree/disagree?

And thanks for moving this to its own thread.

[Adam Schneider]

Having discs available in brick-and-mortar national chain stores is probably a good thing for the sport, sure -- but it's not BETTER for the sport than buying discs from other vendors. I fail to see how Jerry Miller and DiscGolfCenter.com selling stuff below MSRP is undermining them in the slightest. REI, Dick's, Joe's, etc. cater to people who have no idea that some guy out in East Portland is selling stuff cheaper out of his garage.

I'm having a hard time making a coherent point because I don't see any logic in Dunipace's assertion to begin with...

[proto something or other]

Originally Posted by Adam Schneider

Having discs available in brick-and-mortar national chain stores is probably a good thing for the sport, sure -- but it's not BETTER for the sport than buying discs from other vendors. I fail to see how Jerry Miller and DiscGolfCenter.com selling stuff below MSRP is undermining them in the slightest. REI, Dick's, Joe's, etc. cater to people who have no idea that some guy out in East Portland is selling stuff cheaper out of his garage.

I'm having a hard time making a coherent point because I don't see any logic in Dunipace's assertion to begin with...

It's probably the logic that comes from the guy who has a hand in setting the MSRP and doesn't like to see them undercut.

I guess I disagree about the national chains not being better promotional tools. This is a thing I was merely curious about, so thanks for your input.

[Adam Schneider]

I don't understand why Innova really cares what the final retail price is. Isn't their goal simply to move plastic, the more the better? They're not being "undercut" because they're not setting up Innova retail outlets (à la Apple stores).

[proto something or other]

Originally Posted by Adam Schneider

I don't understand why Innova really cares what the final retail price is. Isn't their goal simply to move plastic, the more the better? They're not being "undercut" because they're not setting up Innova retail outlets (à la Apple stores).

Well, I don't think they do care (from the Dave D post I re-posted). At least not from a financial standpoint.

Perhaps, though, they care because if they didn't set an MSRP it would be easy for one retailer to undercut all others based on low cost/high volume. But I have no idea. Someone who went to business school or reads the WSJ will have to chime in on that one.

[dan]

Originally Posted by Adam Schneider

I don't understand why Innova really cares what the final retail price is. Isn't their goal simply to move plastic, the more the better? They're not being "undercut" because they're not setting up Innova retail outlets (à la Apple stores).

When I worked at a climbing gym, we weren't allowed to sell Black Diamond equipment at a discount (other than the occasional sale), because BD didn't want their premium brand to look cheap. I don't know how applicable that is to discs, but I thought I'd mention it.

[pfunkn]

Originally Posted by Adam Schneider

I don't understand why Innova really cares what the final retail price is. Isn't their goal simply to move plastic, the more the better? They're not being "undercut" because they're not setting up Innova retail outlets (à la Apple stores).

The only reason this came up on the PDGA site is because someone questioned why the DX 3 packs are more expensive than buying 3 seperate since the MSRP is $6.99. Dannapice (however you spell the guys name) corrected the incorrect MSRP. If i recall the part that was posted on this tread is only a small portion of the forum topic.

[proto something or other]

Originally Posted by pfunkn

If i recall the part that was posted on this tread is only a small portion of the forum topic.

That's right. The rest of the thread is about discs, tech specs and other stuff.

Here's a link if you're interested. The discussion leading up to this takes place on the page just prior to the one I've linked: http://discussion.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?C...age=0&fpart=77

[JMan]

It really is a great debate E. If by B&M you mean REI, Joe's etc. their prices are set, too high, but set. And they do grow the sport a bit, and cater to folks who aren't worried as much about price. Now if Biff and Bob try to set up a small outlet for folks on the local scene and sell low, they're bound to fold. Unless of course they can stay around for a few decades, i.e. Disc Golf Depot. The noobs might get turned onto the game through rei or joe's, but if they take it up for any length of time they will hear about and use the Depot or GDC. Next adventure is a good example of a hybrid; pricing a bit high, but discounts on 3+ or being a SDG member. And they cater to insiders of a variety of hip slick and cool outdoor pastimes. I'll wager more NA shoppers at have probably heard about DG, than your average joe's shopper, maybe not. Not to mention being able to stay in business during this economic slide. We won't see much stability until home prices stabilize. With the Fed's lowering the prime last week there has been some movement to refinance; but that movement is only the option of a small amount of people with ready availability to cash. Not a high percentage yet. On the whole we're struggling to get up to the poverty level. Let's just hope with all the money for bailouts and economic stimulus packages we have enough to make the interest payments on our foreign debt.

[proto something or other]

Originally Posted by JMan

It really is a great debate E. If by B&M you mean REI, Joe's etc. their prices are set, too high, but set. And they do grow the sport a bit, and cater to folks who aren't worried as much about price. Now if Biff and Bob try to set up a small outlet for folks on the local scene and sell low, they're bound to fold. Unless of course they can stay around for a few decades, i.e. Disc Golf Depot. The noobs might get turned onto the game through rei or joe's, but if they take it up for any length of time they will hear about and use the Depot or GDC. Next adventure is a good example of a hybrid; pricing a bit high, but discounts on 3+ or being a SDG member. And they cater to insiders of a variety of hip slick and cool outdoor pastimes. I'll wager more NA shoppers at have probably heard about DG, than your average joe's shopper, maybe not.

Totally agree. Well said.

[Bruce]

Maybe my view is not the same as everyone elses on this, but here goes. I really don't care what a disc costs. If I find something I like and don't really have to go out of my way to get it, sure I'll pay more. I would pay even more if a course had an actual pro shop. I think having a business cater to our needs, ala selling plastic or baskets, whatever is great for the sport. Sure it may be a little more out of the pocket but in the long run that extra money can potentially help grow our sport even more. You may see the prices of NA being to high or whatever, but look at what they do for our sport, the sponsorships for example. I thought I saw Pinkal write that NA was doing 1.40 per dollar for script for the Stumptown tourneys? I could be wrong on that, but that is pretty freaking fantastic for disc golf.

Let alone food, and the hundred of dollars in gear they give away at larger events. Pay more, get more in the long run. I do not see the harm in any of this, you stingy bastards

Edit:
And if we actually had an on course pro shop, I would travel out of my way to buy plastic there. Hell I would probably live there. Disc golf would be the better for a business like this, if we could support it, even if we are paying higher prices. Sure the sport may not be there yet, but give it time. I seriously doubt, knowing the disc golf community that all that extra 2 or 3 dollars per disc we would be paying would go directly to said pro shops pocket. I know people use the excuse that "I'm selling below msrp as my way of giving back to the sport." Sure okay I can buy that, but at the same time if you want to give back to the sport, pocket a little extra cash, take some of the extra cash and actually GIVE back to the sport, not a select few individuals that come to your location to buy plastic. But as I said at the beginning of the post, that is just my view.