CTP Rules?

[T-Bird]

At our league last night @ Cascade we had a CTP on 17.
17 has a left mando and an OB behind the basket.

2 incidents for discussion:

1 player missed the mando and on his 2nd tee shot he parked it.

Another player went OB past the basket but, by rule, when his disc was placed 1 meter in from where he went out he was CTP.

I say that since each player was no longer throwing their 2nd shot it was not a valid CTP.

On a side note the actual CTP failed to convert his birdie putt which just seems wrong as well.

Are there any rules regarding CTP's? Or is it up to the TD's to establish guidelines for each event?

[mazza]

Originally Posted by T-Bird

At our league last night @ Cascade we had a CTP on 17.
17 has a left mando and an OB behind the basket.

2 incidents for discussion:

1 player missed the mando and on his 2nd tee shot he parked it.

Another player went OB past the basket but, by rule, when his disc was placed 1 meter in from where he went out he was CTP.

I say that since each player was no longer throwing their 2nd shot it was not a valid CTP.

On a side note the actual CTP failed to convert his birdie putt which just seems wrong as well.

Are there any rules regarding CTP's? Or is it up to the TD's to establish guidelines for each event?

the way it was explained to me was. with your first shot off the tee pad. 2nd shots or retees i belive would not be vaild. and with going ob and then taking your 1 meter in would not give that person the c.t.p.

[Wes Hansen]

No one should have had that CTP. 2nd shots don't count. OB no good.
BUT- TD makes the rules.
I've always liked to have a minimum distance away from the pin for a CTP to be valid. (i.e. NO ONE wins a CTP if no one is really very close.
Why were only two players going for a CTP?

[mazza]

personaly i think u should have to be inside the 10m ring for a ctp to count

[T-Bird]

Everyone was going for it. The 2 players in question did not get the prize. It ended up going to the player who put it closest on his 1st drive, no OB. He was in the circle. He missed his 18ft putt.

[Wes Hansen]

Then you would be one of the two aforementioned throws- and would have liked to be awarded the CTP?

[T-Bird]

No, I'm the guy who totally parked it in practice but was no where near when it counted.
From my 1st post: "I say that since each player was no longer throwing their 2nd shot it was not a valid CTP."
I was just involved in the discussion and was curious.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by T-Bird

At our league last night @ Cascade we had a CTP on 17.
17 has a left mando and an OB behind the basket.

2 incidents for discussion:

1 player missed the mando and on his 2nd tee shot he parked it.

Another player went OB past the basket but, by rule, when his disc was placed 1 meter in from where he went out he was CTP.

I say that since each player was no longer throwing their 2nd shot it was not a valid CTP.

On a side note the actual CTP failed to convert his birdie putt which just seems wrong as well.

Are there any rules regarding CTP's? Or is it up to the TD's to establish guidelines for each event?

There are no standardized rules for CTP. It is up to the TD.

IMO, thrower #1 has no claim to the CTP because he did not throw a valid shot (missed mando). If there was no CTP involved, he wouldn't be able to play from there, so why should he if there is a CTP in play? However, the second thrower does have a valid claim to the CTP prize. Throwing OB can be a valid strategy in some situations, knowing that you can come in one meter and have a shot at a 3P. The TD should explicitly state that OB shots can't be considered. If he did not, this was a valid CTP.

[T-Bird]

I think a simple rule by the TD: "the player must birdie for the CTP to be valid would solve it nicely.

[snap7times]

Simply put, CTP is a shot from tee that lands closest to pin without any modifications *missing mando or OB*... Doesn't matter if winner is 50 feet away...

[Scott]

Originally Posted by snap7times

Simply put, CTP is a shot from tee that lands closest to pin without any modifications *missing mando or OB*... Doesn't matter if winner is 50 feet away...

Makes perfect sense, but I think the "without any modifications" part is an assumption and should be clarified beforehand.

[Chuck Kennedy]

In a CTP during the event, it probably should be that players must have reached the location for measurement on their first throw and if it's penalized, then they are just out of the competition. The tricky issue would be if the player landed inbounds less than 1 meter from OB, could they relocate toward the basket, if that was the correct direction, to get a little closer since no penalty was involved?

In a CTP after the event, players are not actually playing a real hole since no score is kept. That means no missed mandos, no OBs and no 2 meter penalties. Each player makes one throw and the closest throw wins regardless whether it's OB or it missed a mando. So the first shot that missed the mando should have counted with no rethrow and the shot in OB would be measured from there if possible and necessary. There are no PDGA rules on this but then a hole isn't being played either. Ideally, the TD should be picking a hole or placing a temp basket for the CTP where there aren't mandos or OBs nearby anyway.

[snap7times]

changing the spot of the disc is a modification. In a CTP hole outside of a tournament round, I pray no TD is "dumb" enough to place a basket around trees, ob, or enforce mandos.

[Wes Hansen]

Originally Posted by T-Bird

No, I'm the guy who totally parked it in practice but was no where near when it counted.
From my 1st post: "I say that since each player was no longer throwing their 2nd shot it was not a valid CTP."
I was just involved in the discussion and was curious.

Poor assumption on my part. Interesting opinions.
Only the TD's counts.

[LakeStevensBA]

Another controversy we had pop up was regarding CTPs while playing California. At our doubles event, the Cali's first shot is the only one that counts toward a ctp or ace pot. I have been to another doubles format where the Cali dude gets both shots at the CTP and he actually hit an ace on his second shot and got paid for it.

Is it more common at these events that the Cali's first shot is the only one that would count for the $?

[DMajor]

All the cali's drives should count for ctp and aces in my opinion

[The Ombudsman]

This is simple to clarify. to claim a CTP you must lie 1.
After an OB or rethrow you lie 2 or 3.

[REDFIVE]

What about long drives? A couple years ago There was a long drive out at sumner meadows that landed in a bunker which was OB but the lie was a good 550-600 from the tee but 30 back from where the disc came to rest. We gave the player the long drive because of his lie. Should we have?