PDGA Rating Question

[Bullseye]

Originally Posted by zippyboy

Thank you, sir. It would just seem that this would be a better way to grow the sport. Keep the payout for the divisions, in the divisions. The ripoff (or such as it seems to me) of taking a large portion of the entry fee and giving it to higher divisions has kept me out of everything PDGA associated...

Please don't take this as a slam on the PDGA, this is just my view for right now. And, to head off a typical reply; yes, I am seriously considering volunteering my time to do such an event.... And I also figure that I would need to become a PDGA member to do such a thing, correct?

Hey Zippy,

I know you didn't want to get into a big ordeal over this subject, but I did want to clarify one thing for you. The situation with the payouts you are concerned with really does not happen as often as you might think, and certainly not in this area. Neither the Oregon Series or the Stumptown Series take money from one division and give it to another. The entry fees from each division get put into a pool of prize money for that division. The cost of the players pack and any misc fees (like park usage, end of year championships etc) get subtracted from that amount. The remainder gets divided up by the people who cash.

I know at least one person who keeps telling people this garbage (in spite of the fact that it is not true), but I'm really not here to attack anyone. I just wish people would stop trying to drive a wedge into our community with disinformation.

Anyway, I just wanted to clear that up, because it really bugs me.

See you at a course somewhere!

Jeff

[Magilla]

Originally Posted by Bullseye

Hey Zippy,

I know you didn't want to get into a big ordeal over this subject, but I did want to clarify one thing for you. The situation with the payouts you are concerned with really does not happen as often as you might think, and certainly not in this area. Neither the Oregon Series or the Stumptown Series take money from one division and give it to another. The entry fees from each division get put into a pool of prize money for that division. The cost of the players pack and any misc fees (like park usage, end of year championships etc) get subtracted from that amount. The remainder gets divided up by the people who cash.

I know at least one person who keeps telling people this garbage (in spite of the fact that it is not true), but I'm really not here to attack anyone. I just wish people would stop trying to drive a wedge into our community with disinformation.

Anyway, I just wanted to clear that up, because it really bugs me.

See you at a course somewhere!

Jeff

Jeff is absolutely correct on this. The Oregon Series DOES NOT ALLOW money to be transfered between divisions.
The ONLY difference may be the ADDED money that the TD puts into each division. That is solely up to the TD. I also have heard people complain that money is taken from lower divisions to "pad" the higher ones. That is NOT the case with Oregon Series events.

To clarify further...
YES, to run a PDGA event you MUST be a PDGA member AND a PDGA Official (which is just a matter of taking and passing the officials test)

[Sausage Fingers]

Originally Posted by Magilla

To clarify further...
YES, to run a PDGA event you MUST be a PDGA member AND a PDGA Official (which is just a matter of taking and passing the officials test)

And one of the benefits to a Stumptown membership is $5 off your PDGA membership and FREE officials tests. That's $15 right there from your $10 Stumptown membership. And in case you're in a hurry and want to get going on that MA3/MA4 tourney, a Stumptown membership purchased now is good through the end of 2009 and we have the tests in-house right now for you to take.

[zippyboy]

Thanks, Magilla and Bullseye. I wasn't trying to insinuate that any one tournament or series (especially local ones) were engaging in this practice. It may have been poorly worded on my part, sorry. It just seems that, in some instances, the lower divisions get the shaft. That's all. But this is also why I wanted to make it part of the discussion. As I have stated, I am on the outside (of the PDGA, and really, a lot of the tournament scene, in general) looking in, and that was and is, merely my perception.

Please note, this is not a veiled attempt on my part to slam anybody, or anything. So if I worded something to sound aggressive, it is/was not intended as such.

And, Jordan, thank you for letting me know about the Stumptown tie-in with the PDGA. I have been contemplating finally breaking down and getting my PDGA membership, so I will take this into account. And, I would most likely join up with Stumptown as well. Seems that the anti-Washington sentiments that were expressed in the initial meeting appear to have faded - cause that was pretty much what had been keeping me from rejoining.

To borrow a phrase:

[Magilla]

Originally Posted by zippyboy

It just seems that, in some instances, the lower divisions get the shaft. That's all. But this is also why I wanted to make it part of the discussion. As I have stated, I am on the outside (of the PDGA, and really, a lot of the tournament scene, in general) looking in, and that was and is, merely my perception.

Something that seems to be "missed" by some players are the fees involved, which can make it seem that lower divisions are getting the shaft.

Heres an example....using the Oregon Series as a model

Rec Division (Am3) has 5 players paying $40 each to play in a B Tier event.

This make $200 total entrys. Of that $5 goes to the Series and $3 goes to the PDGA.
200 - 40 = $160 left
Now you have to pay for your players Package, IF at cost a T-Shirt and Disc will be about $18, IF retail about $35. Lets use "at cost".
$160 - 90 = $70 left.
Now you have to pay for you trophys...
Lets say that you are using the REAL NICE Suhocki Basket Trophies at $30 ea and only give out 2 of the 5 places
$70 - 60 = $10
NOW you have to take out YOUR share of the Insurance & Sanctioning ($125 total for a B-Teir) AND any other fees associated with the event.
(Park Fees, Printing costs for scorecards, etc)
Its usually about this point that the TD is disgusted with the lack of payout and then PUTS MORE added cash perperson into this group than ANY OTHER division just so there can be ANY payout at all.


The PDGA desires that TD's focus more on Players Packages and NOT on payout for the lower divisions. Notice that this year & last, the Memorial has NO PAYOUT for ALL AMATEUR divisions. They focus on giving a Player Pack that is worth more than DOUBLE the entry fee (thanks to sponsors) and has Trophies only for the top finishers.

[Pizzel]

Originally Posted by zippyboy

Thanks, Magilla and Bullseye. I wasn't trying to insinuate that any one tournament or series (especially local ones) were engaging in this practice. It may have been poorly worded on my part, sorry. It just seems that, in some instances, the lower divisions get the shaft. That's all. But this is also why I wanted to make it part of the discussion. As I have stated, I am on the outside (of the PDGA, and really, a lot of the tournament scene, in general) looking in, and that was and is, merely my perception.

Zip...would you mind giving any specific examples of the instances you mentioned in your post? This might help focus the discussion a bit.

[zippyboy]

I am honestly not trying to duck the previous question, but I have no specifics for you. Sorry. This is an old perception that I have dating back to when I first started looking into playing tournaments (a little more than two years ago). It seemed (at that time, and based upon the two or three tournaments I was reviewing results for) that for the number of people entered into each respective division, the payout (scrip or otherwise) appeared to be far more skewed to the higher division, regardless of the number of competitors.

As I haven't really looked into playing much competitively since then, this may have changed, and I may not be aware of it. If so, again, sorry. An old perception. I am very intrigued about the idea of running an AM3 and AM4 only event, though. And I also appreciate the depth of information about all of this, without feeling like I am being attacked or talked down to. You guys rock. Thanks.

Now that we've drifted this thread out to sea, should we move it? Just curious...