PDGA Rating Question

[Sam]

Yes, yes... I know that there are technically two divisions. I just fail to see the usefulness of both and would think that people would be trying to get out of both as soon as they can.

[D-Walk]

Originally Posted by Sam

Yes, yes... I know that there are technically two divisions. I just fail to see the usefulness of both and would think that people would be trying to get out of both as soon as they can.

Personally I think it's great that there is a Rec division, even if people feel like my abilities are better then I think they are. That being said, i do think people should play where they like, if their ratings allow.

I have no rating, have played in 2 tournaments and definitely felt when signing up for Slosh #1 and the upcoming #2, that the Rec division was where I needed to be. I think playing in a tournament is a hell of a lot different then just playing a round with friends. i found this out the hard way when I blew up in round 2.

However, I personally feel that playing up makes me a better player. I had a great time playing Rec, and look forward to playing it again, but most likely will move up just so that I surround my self with better competition. I'm not taking away from the others that are playing Rec, because I have played with most of you that are signed up in Rec for Slosh #2, and don't consider myself any better.

I do think that it is a personal choice, as long as you are meeting guidelines. If you just want to play at a rec level then definitely play there, but don't sell yourself short just for comfort reasons. If we keep growing the sport then hopefully we will continually have players in Rec and up.

When it's all said and done, let's just throw some plastic, talk some trash, and have the times of our lives.

["Over the Hill" Bob]

Geeeezzzzzzzzzzzzzzz CHEF...............see what you cooked up now?

Bob

[Chef]

Trozzle:

Not talking about you.... why does it all have to be about you?

I see this a flaw in a lot of sports and compatition. If someone wins a division, they can keep playing that division until the overall score or ratings push them over.

I played footbag competitivly for years. Same thing with martial arts. They had one thing in common... if you won a division, you moved up into then ext division. That was interiging for all.

As for disc golf, doesnt really matter to me. I just love playing. The first tournament... kicked my ass. Two rounds killed me! But I loved every minuted if it!

[smobro]

1) Play your casual rounds with better players. It will make you better. Of course it just makes them worse.

2) Play your tournament rounds within the guidelines provided by the PDGA and the TD. This is by intelligent design.

3) Attend the skills clinics at each PDGA sanctioned event. That will make you better also. Oh, wait, we don't have skills based clinics during each PDGA sanctioned event. We should. I would totally dig getting some quality tips from guys who are better. The problem is that when you are trying to get tips during a competitive round, you are sort of annoying to the group you are playing with. Plus, have you ever tried to change something during a competitive round.

Logic has been applied.

[smobro]

Originally Posted by smobro

1) Play your casual rounds with better players. It will make you better. Of course it just makes them worse.

2) Play your tournament rounds within the guidelines provided by the PDGA and the TD. This is by intelligent design.

3) Attend the skills clinics at each PDGA sanctioned event. That will make you better also. Oh, wait, we don't have skills based clinics during each PDGA sanctioned event. We should. I would totally dig getting some quality tips from guys who are better. The problem is that when you are trying to get tips during a competitive round, you are sort of annoying to the group you are playing with. Plus, have you ever tried to change something during a competitive round.

Logic has been applied.

Oh and welcome Dave W. Glad to see you are getting into the fray. Looking forward to throwing with you.

[Sam]

I think that we should remember that there are two things one can take away from guidelines - the same as we can take two things away from the law. 1, the letter of the guideline. 2, the spirit of the guideline.

I agree that you all are within your right to sign up for this division and think you should if it makes you happy. You get to play with good people. You do. Tournament-wise, however, you will end up playing with the same guys over and over and will not advance your game. If your goal is recreation, you will achieve this. If your goal is to get better at tournament disc golf, you need to start climbing the ladder. Up.

Personally, I think the guidelines are flawed and I was both surprised and dismayed to see the PDGA expand divisions on the lower end rather than on the upper end. Not saying that that would have been a better idea - just was surprised at the direction it took.

[Trozzle!!!]

Personally for me, I could play MA3, MA2. MA1, Pro, whatever? in a tourney and still have the same amount of fun. I dont play disc golf to become the greatest player in any division, I play this for fun. I prefer to play MA3 right now because it is more fun, and less pressure on the competitive part. I finally won my first tourney of any kind. If I continue to win tourneys in the MA3 ivision, I woul gladly move up. 1 win in any division doesnt make me want to move up anytime soon.

[LegoRules]

Novice should be for people's first event - period.

I have a question. If you had a group of true first timers that was their first tournament ever, and they were all say in the Novice division how would they manage to get through a course on their own. I mean there are rules to be followed, and certain etiquette as well that must be learned. I played in my first tournament ever earlier this year at the Chick Flick tournament, and there was a lot of women who had never played a tournament before let alone disc golf. The new players were all in the Rec division, and were put in groups with the more experienced players form the upper divisions. I know I really appreciated that, and learned a lot. I mean I did not even know how to score before that tournament let alone any of the etiquette. My point is I think it would be less intimidating for a new players to play with some experienced players and learn some of this stuff, as opposed to fumbling around the course not really knowing what they are doing. For instance my husband has never played in a tournament before, but he would much rather play in a group with some guys that knew what they were doing as opposed to a bunch of guys that did not know what they were doing. Just an observation not trying to stir the pot or anything.

Cindy

[Bullseye]

Originally Posted by LegoRules

I have a question. If you had a group of true first timers that was their first tournament ever, and they were all say in the Novice division how would they manage to get through a course on their own. I mean there are rules to be followed, and certain etiquette as well that must be learned. I played in my first tournament ever earlier this year at the Chick Flick tournament, and there was a lot of women who had never played a tournament before let alone disc golf. The new players were all in the Rec division, and were put in groups with the more experienced players form the upper divisions. I know I really appreciated that, and learned a lot. I mean I did not even know how to score before that tournament let alone any of the etiquette. My point is I think it would be less intimidating for a new players to play with some experienced players and learn some of this stuff, as opposed to fumbling around the course not really knowing what they are doing. For instance my husband has never played in a tournament before, but he would much rather play in a group with some guys that knew what they were doing as opposed to a bunch of guys that did not know what they were doing. Just an observation not trying to stir the pot or anything.

Cindy

Cindy,

Knowing what I know now (after playing for several years) I would suggest that you have the newer players sign up for Recreational and just let them know ahead of time not to have exceptionally high expectations. I would say try Novice, but realistically I doubt we would have enough people sign up for that division for it to be viable. I'd suggest you set the stage with them as the whole thing being a learning experience, and if they play well they can pleasantly surprised. It really is about having FUN first!

Jeff

[Sam]

Also possible to have a marshall or someone who knows the rules follow them around and help them out. Of course, I understand twig-snapping happens at higher levels, too.

[Sausage Fingers]

Originally Posted by Sam

Of course, I understand twig-snapping happens at higher levels, too.

This is the ONLY statement that you have made in this entire thread that I agree with!

You sit there in your high tower and talk about how lower rated players should all 'play up'. I got one thing to say to you: BITE ME!

If you are so concerned with getting people to move up you are looking at the WRONG end of the AM scale my friend. And what keeps players who always have a good chance to win AM1 or AM2 from moving up? The fact that massive amounts of players compete in those fields. That jacks the payouts for winning AM1 or AM2 WAY higher than they would have a realistic of making in the higher divisions. Now if you have all 4 AM divisions you have split up the giant fields and the payouts will be smaller. That makes the reward for playing a higher division ACTUALLY HIGHER! Imagine that?!?

If everybody played where their rating dictated then the divisions would be smaller and so would the payouts. There is another way to encourage those that want payout to move up: make the payouts MUCH more shallow. MA1 pays out to top 30%; MA2 pays out to top 45%; MA3 pays out top 60%; MA4 plays for trophies with the rest of the entry fees used for players packs. Smaller divisions with shallower payouts and those that are in it for payout will move up faster and those preying on the lesser players will not see the easy pickings that encourage sandbagging.

There is no reason for there to be a 60 player AM1 division when there are not 60 Am players rated above 935! But what keeps a 975 rated player playing AM? The chance to fleece the other 59 players out of their entry fees.

But a reason that most PDGA tourneys don't offer AM4 IS speed of play. And when tourneys fill before they start there is no reason to offer AM4 when you can fill it with higher paying entrants.

Besides, you should get your AM4 training at smaller events, get the basic rules under your belt and then jump into PDGA competition in MA3. Play in that division until your rating rises and moves you into MA2. Play in that division until your rating rises and moves you into MA1. By the time that you are playing in MA1 you should start to decide if playing Pro is something that you want to try. This works for the majority of the people who play DG.

Now if you are talking about freaks of nature like Ron The Whip who improve MUCH faster than the average, skipping divisions and moving up to improve your play is a valid argument. But just because it works for RTW doesn't make it the standard that all players should follow.

NEW FORUM RULE: If you are playing Pro or your rating is above 935 you get NO SAY about the subject of AM3/AM4.

[proto something or other]

Originally Posted by Sausage Fingers

NEW FORUM RULE: If you are playing Pro or your rating is above 935 you get NO SAY about the subject of AM3/AM4.

Does this include Team Golf ratings? Or just PDGA ratings? Either way, I think I am still cool.

I think people should play where they are comfortable, although I do think there should be a ratings cut off for playing in Am divisions vs. Open divisions. (Or a different equally brilliant solution to prevent sandbagging).

Ok, bye.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by Sausage Fingers

This is the ONLY statement that you have made in this entire thread that I agree with!

You sit there in your high tower and talk about how lower rated players should all 'play up'. I got one thing to say to you: BITE ME!

If you are so concerned with getting people to move up you are looking at the WRONG end of the AM scale my friend. And what keeps players who always have a good chance to win AM1 or AM2 from moving up? The fact that massive amounts of players compete in those fields. That jacks the payouts for winning AM1 or AM2 WAY higher than they would have a realistic of making in the higher divisions. Now if you have all 4 AM divisions you have split up the giant fields and the payouts will be smaller. That makes the reward for playing a higher division ACTUALLY HIGHER! Imagine that?!?

If everybody played where their rating dictated then the divisions would be smaller and so would the payouts. There is another way to encourage those that want payout to move up: make the payouts MUCH more shallow. MA1 pays out to top 30%; MA2 pays out to top 45%; MA3 pays out top 60%; MA4 plays for trophies with the rest of the entry fees used for players packs. Smaller divisions with shallower payouts and those that are in it for payout will move up faster and those preying on the lesser players will not see the easy pickings that encourage sandbagging.

There is no reason for there to be a 60 player AM1 division when there are not 60 Am players rated above 935! But what keeps a 975 rated player playing AM? The chance to fleece the other 59 players out of their entry fees.

But a reason that most PDGA tourneys don't offer AM4 IS speed of play. And when tourneys fill before they start there is no reason to offer AM4 when you can fill it with higher paying entrants.

Besides, you should get your AM4 training at smaller events, get the basic rules under your belt and then jump into PDGA competition in MA3. Play in that division until your rating rises and moves you into MA2. Play in that division until your rating rises and moves you into MA1. By the time that you are playing in MA1 you should start to decide if playing Pro is something that you want to try. This works for the majority of the people who play DG.

Now if you are talking about freaks of nature like Ron The Whip who improve MUCH faster than the average, skipping divisions and moving up to improve your play is a valid argument. But just because it works for RTW doesn't make it the standard that all players should follow.

NEW FORUM RULE: If you are playing Pro or your rating is above 935 you get NO SAY about the subject of AM3/AM4.

Wow. Nicely said. I agree with every word.

[Sam]

I was waiting for Jordan to chime in, actually.

In this area, I think the sport's governing body should place more focus on how to make tournament players better - not find ways that they do not have to improve because they can continue to compete at a very low level.

That is all.

[Sausage Fingers]

Originally Posted by Sam

I was waiting for Jordan to chime in, actually.

In this area, I think the sport's governing body should place more focus on how to make tournament players better - not find ways that they do not have to improve because they can continue to compete at a very low level.

That is all.

Tournament players who want to get better will get better with practice and by playing lots of DG. Players who work full time and have a family and are lucky to get out once a week deserve a division to play in too. When they can make time to play a PDGA tourney they shouldn't be forced to play in a division that gives them no chance to win. It's not all about the top players and you're dreaming if you think the sport will ever equal stick and ball golf.

This is a sport that can be played by people of all ages and abilities. The rating system is what we have, let's let it do the job it is supposed to do. I really think that smaller AM pools will get people who want payout to move up faster than belittling them on a forum.

[Sam]

I don't think I was belittling anyone, Jordan.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this subject because it is clear that we do.

[zippyboy]

Ok, I have a question. I have not joined the PDGA for a couple of reasons (none which need to be discussed in this thread, though), so I am unclear on this issue... Can a PDGA sanctioned tournament be ran that has only AM3 and AM4 divisions (if I am understanding correctly that these are the two lowest divisions)? THAT may be something that could help to grow the competitive side of the sport. Just my $.02, but please, let me know...

[Magilla]

Originally Posted by zippyboy

Ok, I have a question. I have not joined the PDGA for a couple of reasons (none which need to be discussed in this thread, though), so I am unclear on this issue... Can a PDGA sanctioned tournament be ran that has only AM3 and AM4 divisions (if I am understanding correctly that these are the two lowest divisions)? THAT may be something that could help to grow the competitive side of the sport. Just my $.02, but please, let me know...

Yes, a Tournament Director CAN limit the divisions that are offered.
As long as it is "posted" ahead of time........

There are regions that hold seperate events...Pro/Advanced and Intermediate & below.

[zippyboy]

Thank you, sir. It would just seem that this would be a better way to grow the sport. Keep the payout for the divisions, in the divisions. The ripoff (or such as it seems to me) of taking a large portion of the entry fee and giving it to higher divisions has kept me out of everything PDGA associated...

Please don't take this as a slam on the PDGA, this is just my view for right now. And, to head off a typical reply; yes, I am seriously considering volunteering my time to do such an event.... And I also figure that I would need to become a PDGA member to do such a thing, correct?