PDGA Rating Question

[Chef]

If someone takes first in a PDGA tournament, does that mean they need to enter into a higher division next tournament?

[Trozzle!!!]

Nope

Once my rating is too high to play MA3, then I have to move up to MA2 in PDGA events.

I am only assuming you were talking about me of course

["Over the Hill" Bob]

Advanced MA1 All Any (required for 935+)
Intermediate MA2 All < 935
Recreational MA3 All < 900
Novice MA4 All < 850

As long as your player rating is below 850 you can actually play Novice, however I've yet to see a Novice division available. My player rating as of today is still 722 so I am able to play and win any division above my rating. Trozzle as good as he played at the first Slosh event is still well below 900 so he can stay in MA3 (Rec) and win as many as he wants. Not gonna happen though. It's still hard for me to imagine that as well as I've been playing lately that I'm still not even close to actually being considered a MA3 (Rec) player.

Chef, if you'd like to enter the next Slosh event and play Novice (MA4) I'd be ok with seeing if the TD will let me drop down to form a new division. We need 4 player to have a division.

Bob

[LegoRules]

Hey if you guys formed the Novice division for the 2nd Slosh I may be able to talk my husband into joining as well. He is pretty new to the game, and has never played in a tournament before.

Cindy

Originally Posted by "Over the Hill" Bob

Advanced MA1 All Any (required for 935+)
Intermediate MA2 All < 935
Recreational MA3 All < 900
Novice MA4 All < 850

As long as your player rating is below 850 you can actually play Novice, however I've yet to see a Novice division available. My player rating as of today is still 722 so I am able to play and win any division above my rating. Trozzle as good as he played at the first Slosh event is still well below 900 so he can stay in MA3 (Rec) and win as many as he wants. Not gonna happen though. It's still hard for me to imagine that as well as I've been playing lately that I'm still not even close to actually being considered a MA3 (Rec) player.

Chef, if you'd like to enter the next Slosh event and play Novice (MA4) I'd be ok with seeing if the TD will let me drop down to form a new division. We need 4 player to have a division.

Bob

[essjay]

Updates are done!

[Sam]

To answer the O/P...

No... but they should move up.

Recreational - in my opinion - does not mean someone who plays multiple times per week every week, has competed in multiple tournaments and won at least one. I don't give a shit about ratings or whether I should be paying attention to the names or not. Recreational should be for those who see DG as a recreational pursuit, not a regular hobby. Novice should be for people's first event - period.

Been playing for 2+ years and played in tournaments before? You should play Intermediate. Suck too much to cash? Oh well... get better. But don't make tournaments bottom-heavy just because you can. Bagging happens at all levels, apparently.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by Sam

To answer the O/P...

No... but they should move up.

Recreational - in my opinion - does not mean someone who plays multiple times per week every week, has competed in multiple tournaments and won at least one. I don't give a shit about ratings or whether I should be paying attention to the names or not. Recreational should be for those who see DG as a recreational pursuit, not a regular hobby. Novice should be for people's first event - period.

Been playing for 2+ years and played in tournaments before? You should play Intermediate. Suck too much to cash? Oh well... get better. But don't make tournaments bottom-heavy just because you can. Bagging happens at all levels, apparently.

I assumes that this means you will immediatley begin playing pro. Suck to much to cash? Oh well... get better.

[Bullseye]

Originally Posted by Scott

I assumes that this means you will immediatley begin playing pro. Suck to much to cash? Oh well... get better.

Well, if you takes Sam's comment completely out of context, yes, that might appear to be a correct statement, but his comment was aimed squarely at Novice and Recreational players.

Sam plays in Advanced Amateur, which is the highest of all of the Amateur classes. No one, regardless of rating, can be FORCED to play Pro. There are many reasons why this is true, many of which I do not agree with, but the rules are the rules.

[Sam]

Thanks, Jeff.

Technically, the rules are the rules that allow a seasoned tournament veteran to play Recreational, but the spirit of the rules are being missed here, I believe. We are now talking about multiple people who have been playing in casual tournaments for 3+ years, have been playing every week (sometimes multiple times per week) over those three years, who are playing in a division called Recreational. It just doesn't seem right to me.

As for Scott's comment directed at me... I have moved up. Not down, mind you... as some of you "Rec" players have done... but up. My first tournament was as a Rec player. Then I played Intermediate for a while until I won a tournament - not PDGA, mind you... just a tournament. Now I play at the next level, Advanced. Regardless of how I do next season, I will be moving up to Pro Masters for local tournaments and Advanced Masters for PDGA events - until after Am Worlds 2010. Then I will be a Pro Masters' player who might dip his toe into the pro field. So...

[Scott]

Yeah, yeah.... I knew my comment was unfair when I made it. Thought I'd try to slip that in.

BUT... You won't get me to cave so easily on the issue of MA3. Yeah, I play several times a week (not lately ) and yeah, I've played in several tournaments. But how have I finished in those tournaments? The BSF this year was by FAR my best tourney to date - I took last cash. Most other times I'm in the bottom third. Yeah, I play all the time and have played in many tourneys. I should be a lot better - Hell, I wish I was. Fact is, my rating (and the PDGA guidelines) say I belong in MA3. I think many of the other MA3 players that you're calling out are in the same boat.

Take a look at the last several PDGA tournaments in our state. For the most part, you can draw a line right in the middle of the MA2 field. Those on top have ratings >900, those on the bottom have ratings <900. If those on the bottom half formed their own division (MA3), you would have two competitive divisions instead of one divison with the same five guys fighting for first and everyone else fighting for last cash.

[all2common]

Originally Posted by Sam

Technically, the rules are the rules that allow a seasoned tournament veteran to play Recreational, but the spirit of the rules are being missed here, I believe. We are now talking about multiple people who have been playing in casual tournaments for 3+ years, have been playing every week (sometimes multiple times per week) over those three years, who are playing in a division called Recreational. It just doesn't seem right to me.

The rules are the rules...that's why people play sanctioned tournaments so that everybody is playing by the same ones. Right?

At any rate, how does it affect you?

[Sam]

It just seems to me that Rec and Novice should be there to suck players in and get them hooked on the tournament scene. I don't think that they should be divisions that people should stay in long-term but should be relatively quick stepping stones to a higher level of play.

Imagine you come to your first tournament playing Rec... and find out that the majority of the field you are competing against has been playing for 3 years. Seems like a disservice is being done to everyone here.

Hiatt, are we supposed to just comment on or care about things that affect us directly? Really?

[Scott]

Originally Posted by Sam

It just seems to me that Rec and Novice should be there to suck players in and get them hooked on the tournament scene. I don't think that they should be divisions that people should stay in long-term but should be relatively quick stepping stones to a higher level of play.

Imagine you come to your first tournament playing Rec... and find out that the majority of the field you are competing against has been playing for 3 years. Seems like a disservice is being done to everyone here.

Hiatt, are we supposed to just comment on or care about things that affect us directly? Really?

I think that is the intention of MA4 - for newer players. Fact is, we really don't see a lot of people asking to play this division because there aren't that many new players joining the tournament scene. It's always the same old crowd. Secondly, there is such a stigma with "Rec" - who would want to play Novice? That's why I don't like to use those names - I think the PDGA was right when the realigned the divisions a year or so ago, but they erred when naming them.

[Sam]

I think it was a bad idea. Not financially and not as a business decision for the PDGA but in general I think that it will slow down the number of players looking to play up.

Again, though...

Imagine you come to your first tournament playing Rec... and find out that the majority of the field you are competing against has been playing for 3 years. Seems like a disservice is being done to everyone here.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by Sam

I think it was a bad idea. Not financially and not as a business decision for the PDGA but in general I think that it will slow down the number of players looking to play up.

Again, though...

Imagine you come to your first tournament playing Rec... and find out that the majority of the field you are competing against has been playing for 3 years. Seems like a disservice is being done to everyone here.

1. I wouldn't think much of it, especially if I was able to compete against those guys.
2. If everyone who is currently playing MA3 moved to MA2, when the new guy comes along there wouldn't be anyone to play against, right?

[all2common]

Originally Posted by Sam

Hiatt, are we supposed to just comment on or care about things that affect us directly? Really?

Nope. It's absolutely within your right to comment on anything you'd like to.

The point that I was attempting to articulate was that if folks feel like the division that they choose to play in makes them more competitive, then that should be fostered. Because you think them moving up would make them more competitive is beside the point.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Scott

1. I wouldn't think much of it, especially if I was able to compete against those guys.

Really? At the end of the day you wouldn't be like... "Those guys suck." I would.

2. If everyone who is currently playing MA3 moved to MA2, when the new guy comes along there wouldn't be anyone to play against, right?

This is a good and valid point. Honestly, I don't think there should be two novice divisions to accommodate beginner players but I guess the powers that be at the PDGA feel differently about it.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by all2common

The point that I was attempting to articulate was that if folks feel like the division that they choose to play in makes them more competitive, then that should be fostered. Because you think them moving up would make them more competitive is beside the point.

Well, my desire is to see our sport grow more competitive as a whole. I do not think lower-rated players staying in a lower-rated division playing against other lower-rated players helps that goal, ultimately.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by Sam

Well, my desire is to see our sport grow more competitive as a whole. I do not think lower-rated players staying in a lower-rated division playing against other lower-rated players helps that goal, ultimately.

Frankly, I tried the "getting your ass handed to you in a tougher division" route for the last couple of years. That hasn't worked out too well, so I'm giving this a try.

To be honest, my short term goal is to work my way out of MA3 within the next couple of updates. Once I do, I plan to have my ass handed to me by Sam in Advanced Masters.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by Sam

Really? At the end of the day you wouldn't be like... "Those guys suck." I would.



This is a good and valid point. Honestly, I don't think there should be two novice divisions to accommodate beginner players but I guess the powers that be at the PDGA feel differently about it.

There isn't two Novice divisions. There is one (MA4). There is a level above that (MA3) for those that aren't ready (ratings wise) to play MA2.