2010 WA Series suggestions thread

[DMAILMAN]

So here is an update concerning the Autumn Classic. We have secured a TD for the event. Mike Rideout has agreed to run the event with the support of Paul Wright and the TDGPA. At this time sanctioning is not complete but will be soon. As soon as the sanctioning goes through, It will be pre-registration only. We hope this will help alleviate some of the money issues. The TDGPA in support of Paul and Mike and the WSS will set the courses up pro bono. The only charge from the club regarding setup will be for tee signage. That will save the series 300.00 in setup costs.

How about instead of making the local clubs co hosts, what if the local clubs host their own event and the WSS piggyback on those events. WSS participants could pay an additional fee for each of the events that they attend. The WSS Rep could at the time of check in collect the WSS fee from the entrant.

Seems to me that this solution would help each of the host clubs to begin cementing annual events that would help them to grow local support for the clubs and the event

Also, what if all the participating clubs all had to provide a two course, 18 hole layout. That way all events become standardized. No one day events. All two days. Once again...standardize the series

I think it is time to put this year behind us and move forward with high hopes and expectations for 2010 WSS. It is my opinion that the only way the series will prosper and grow will be if each club presents a rep to a commitee to oversee the series. And lets not forget to volunteer to help the series coordinator with all the logistics involved.

Have we learned nothing from what happened in Oregon and now Washington. Running a series cannot be run by one person. there are just no checks and balances to secure success. We all know what happens when people do too much on their own. Can you say burnout! So you can help by stepping up and volunteering to help with all that it takes to run,track and score a series of events. We can do this together..

Keep your feet on the ground and your disc in the air! Nan Nu Nan Nu!

[LJ Jubner]

Originally Posted by DMAILMAN

How about instead of making the local clubs co hosts, what if the local clubs host their own event and the WSS piggyback on those events. WSS participants could pay an additional fee for each of the events that they attend. The WSS Rep could at the time of check in collect the WSS fee from the entrant.

Series fee's
Maybe instead the series could have a small buy in (not in the form of series plastic) Say $150 gets each supporting event the Series artwork to incorporate into their own custom stuff. Now the Discraft dollars is another way to achieve financial security for the series. Unfortunately Discraft plastic is not to popular locally.

Originally Posted by DMAILMAN

Seems to me that this solution would help each of the host clubs to begin cementing annual events that would help them to grow local support for the clubs and the event. Also, what if all the participating clubs all had to provide a two course, 18 hole layout. That way all events become standardized. No one day events. All two days. Once again...standardize the series.

All good thoughts except the two course minimum. This fact will lead to only a few venue's holding series events. I am not one who supports travel between venues on the same day. As an example SeaTac would be eliminated by this requirement. Now some will say Lakewood is close but it's night and day as far as play goes + it requires two complete set-ups. Currently there are 3 established venues . Tri Cities, Four Mound, Stellicoom and and one up and coming Wenatchee that fit the proposed criteria. This eliminates ASC and it's great club support, White River, SeaTac, Lakewood and the turd of the series Riverside.

Another idea is for the left out venues to form a second one day event series. It might just fit the bill?

Originally Posted by DMAILMAN

I think it is time to put this year behind us and move forward with high hopes and expectations for 2010 WSS. It is my opinion that the only way the series will prosper and grow will be if each club presents a rep to a committee to oversee the series. And lets not forget to volunteer to help the series coordinator with all the logistics involved.!

Again good thoughts here and attainable goals, but it will take all of us to make it happen.

[Tim]

Originally Posted by LJ Jubner

All good thoughts except the two course minimum. This fact will lead to only a few venue's holding series events. I am not one who supports travel between venues on the same day. As an example SeaTac would be eliminated by this requirement. Now some will say Lakewood is close but it's night and day as far as play goes + it requires two complete set-ups. Currently there are 3 established venues . Tri Cities, Four Mound, Stellicoom and and one up and coming Wenatchee that fit the proposed criteria. This eliminates ASC and it's great club support, White River, SeaTac, Lakewood and the turd of the series Riverside.

Hey, don't forget Terrace. Jub, I know you're a proponent of fewer events in the series, and making a 2 course standard would support that. It's true that Lakewood/Seatac are very different courses, but I don't see that preventing having a 2 course event there. Pros play Tac-LW-Tac, Ams play LW-Tac-LW. Pros would play LW in all the longs, and if we're worried about timing, flag out some temporary shorter tees for the Ams' round.

I also think the peninsula should get some action...NAD/Fairgrounds would be perfect.

I agree, it would be a shame to take the ASC out though. I'd say make that the exception to the rule, that is, if Scot's still interested in being part of the series.

Sorry, I'd like to flesh out my thoughts more, but I'm actually kinda busy today.

[olydiscgolf]

Thanks to Rideout and TDGPA! Im stoked you guys are stepping up to make this event and series happen! I would like to be involved in the planning process for next years events, I like the idea of club reps coming together to make the series happen. I also like the idea of local clubs supporting the big tournements, there's no reason we can't donate the procedes of a few club events to fund the big picture.

[LJ Jubner]

I am curious when the need to have 144+ players became the norm? Call me old fashioned but I don't really support having two death marches. I will say it again Pools stink.

Tim the biggest issue about the Tac/LW is the difference in time it would take each pool to play either course. 90 players Am's would be close to 4 hrs at the Tac Open 3 hrs so the timing between rounds would be the main issue.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by LJ Jubner

I am curious when the need to have 144+ players became the norm? Call me old fashioned but I don't really support having two death marches. I will say it again Pools stink.

Tim the biggest issue about the Tac/LW is the difference in time it would take each pool to play either course. 90 players Am's would be close to 4 hrs at the Tac Open 3 hrs so the timing between rounds would be the main issue.

Two sweet courses that close to each other? It would be great to see them both in a tournament at the same time.

Why be so negative? Instead of pointing out what won't work why not look for solutions instead?

[LJ Jubner]

I actually thought I had offerd a legit concern.

[Tim]

Originally Posted by LJ Jubner

I am curious when the need to have 144+ players became the norm? Call me old fashioned but I don't really support having two death marches. I will say it again Pools stink.

Tim the biggest issue about the Tac/LW is the difference in time it would take each pool to play either course. 90 players Am's would be close to 4 hrs at the Tac Open 3 hrs so the timing between rounds would be the main issue.

Why big? I think that tournaments that are part of a state series are the ones that should be the biggies, along with the state championship. And if we're insisting on having 2 day events, it kinda seems natural to have more than one course to play.

As to LW/Tac, like I said, we could mark out temp tees for the ams on the more problematic holes. And also, if the ams were only playing it once, and it was their second round on Saturday, the timing wouldn't be as big of an issue.

[LJ Jubner]

After reading all of the RM posts I thought ti might be advantageous to start a new thread about what was good about the Previous series and What could/should be improved upon.

1. Club Co Sponsored events Club reps on board during planning stages.

2 Basic formatting
a. Evaluate possibilities for less total events
b. Combing venues.
c. Qualifiers/Points

3 Establishing fundraising for said events/series.
a. Artwork
b. Series plastic
c. Fundraiser discs
d. Reindeer games

I would like to offer a new spin
AM Pro Am playing Pro or the old Pro II

Not that this is a new idea but I was curious what other think about this. My idea addresses the players who want to go to worlds and are bagging in the division. I propose that I as a Adv Master would pay the Adv entry fee but the fee's would be added to the Pro Master Division (where I would play). Then If I finished in the dough I could A. take scrip and remain Am/ keep lower entry fee or B. Take the dough Go Pro and pay full fees from that point forward. I believe this might help the better players get more experience and encourage lesser players to continue to progress.

[TYVEK]

Originally Posted by LJ Jubner

I am curious when the need to have 144+ players became the norm? Call me old fashioned but I don't really support having two death marches. I will say it again Pools stink.

Tim the biggest issue about the Tac/LW is the difference in time it would take each pool to play either course. 90 players Am's would be close to 4 hrs at the Tac Open 3 hrs so the timing between rounds would be the main issue.

personally i would like to see all tournaments have at least 150 players in them. i know it is going to be years down the road, but the bigger the turnout for an even the better the event will be. SeaTac and Lakewood would make for a awesome two course tournament! if seatac is to hard for ams, then shorten some of the holes for them. other places for two course tournaments- Riverside/white river, stilly, Nad/Fairgrouonds, four mounds/highbridge, kenniwick uses course A and course B,

There is absolutely no reason why we cant start having 2 course tournaments in the state of washington, we have enough venues around washington to cover it.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by LJ Jubner

I actually thought I had offerd a legit concern.

Perhaps it is. What is your proposed solution?

[LJ Jubner]

Originally Posted by TYVEK

personally i would like to see all tournaments have at least 150 players in them. i know it is going to be years down the road, but the bigger the turnout for an even the better the event will be. SeaTac and Lakewood would make for a awesome two course tournament! if seatac is to hard for Am's, then shorten some of the holes for them.

Great now we are redesigning a course for one event

Originally Posted by TYVEK

other places for two course tournaments- Riverside/white river, stilly, Nad/Fairgrouonds, four mounds/highbridge, kenniwick uses course A and course B.

Riverside/white river, Good idea
Stilly, No need
Nad/Fairgrouonds, Good idea
four mounds/highbridge, no need
Kenniwick uses course A and course B already mentioned.

Whats wrong with the smaller venues being only one dayers

Here is another question; How far is to far between venues?

[Scott]

Originally Posted by LJ Jubner

Great now we are redesigning a course for one event

Or adding temp teepads. Not that big of a deal, right?

Originally Posted by LJ Jubner

Whats wrong with the smaller venues being only one dayers

Tim answered this nicely just a few short posts ago: "Why big? I think that tournaments that are part of a state series are the ones that should be the biggies, along with the state championship. And if we're insisting on having 2 day events, it kinda seems natural to have more than one course to play."

Originally Posted by LJ Jubner

Here is another question; How far is to far between venues?

Depends on how long of a break can be given between rounds. I'd say 1/2 hour is reasonable; I wouldn't go more than an hour between courses.

[olydiscgolf]

"Great now we are redesigning a course for one event"

Wow Jub! Why SO angry?

Alot of courses get modified to hold events.

[Tim]

Another thing to add, Am tees wouldn't be needed on all the holes, many of them would be just fine as-is. Jub, you have the breakdown of the relative par for all the holes for all the divisions, I think this would be a perfect place to put that to use. Look at which holes are the most problematic for the lower divisions and adjust those accordingly.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by Tim

Another thing to add, Am tees wouldn't be needed on all the holes, many of them would be just fine as-is. Jub, you have the breakdown of the relative par for all the holes for all the divisions, I think this would be a perfect place to put that to use. Look at which holes are the most problematic for the lower divisions and adjust those accordingly.

To be honest, I don't know if any of the holes at LW need to be adjusted for AMs. Look at the BSF: All pools play the pro pads.

[olydiscgolf]

An easier way would be to change the "par" at Sea Tac for the ams. Make all the work clerical rather than labor intensive. The course wouldn't "seem" so tough if the am par was 90.

[Tim]

Originally Posted by Scott

To be honest, I don't know if any of the holes at LW need to be adjusted for AMs. Look at the BSF: All pools play the pro pads.

Heh, yeah, just to clarify, I'm only talking about the Tac. LW is a great course for Ams.

Originally Posted by olydiscgolf

An easier way would be to change the "par" at Sea Tac for the ams. Make all the work clerical rather than labor intensive. The course wouldn't "seem" so tough if the am par was 90.

Yeah, but Jub's main concern would be the timing of things. Ams are gonna move slower regardless of what the par is rated as.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by Tim

Heh, yeah, just to clarify, I'm only talking about the Tac. LW is a great course for Ams.

That makes a lot more sense. For some reason I thought you were talking about LW. Must be the whole "not reading the entire thread" thing biting me in the butt again.

[LJ Jubner]

Originally Posted by olydiscgolf

"Great now we are redesigning a course for one event"

Wow Jub! Why SO angry?

Alot of courses get modified to hold events.

I/we are still trying to get a handle on the everyday course.

Scott I kind of agree with you the State Series should be the best (not just biggest) events. If you ask me time on the course is critical. Now don't get me wrong, but slow play is why I never play Ball golf on the weekends. How does a 3hr 15 min 9 sound? I see DG headed in that direction. I realize that split weekends or Sat/ Sun one dayer's is a distinct possibility. But those choices are almost better than trying to coordinate 144+ players on two courses with the variance in speed of play, distance apart and Yes even traffic conditions.

Here is a worst case. I have all the B pool cards and heading over, My car breaks down, I am in an accident, whatever, See the instant problem? (Sure Cellphone but still)

Rose City has the farthest to go between venues; (Dexter to Oakview is my experience) How did that work?

Were there many discrepancies between pools/speed of play and timing of finish/travel/start times? IE did one pool play faster then the other and by how long?