Rumor Mill

[Bullseye]

Originally Posted by LJ Jubner

I can not imagine WR did not pay yet so Yes The SC is the only one not to be paid in full

Hey Jub,

Just curious, but... did anyone actually take the time call Ray and ask him about this directly?

[REDFIVE]

This is why it would be cool if more people that are involved in washington state events or clubs would make themselves available here. I know there has been some bad blood between the tdgpa and an ex-series organizer. I don't want to get into details because it is not my place and neither party is represented. Like I previously stated mark kilmer is a dork.

[LJ Jubner]

Originally Posted by Bullseye

Hey Jub,

Just curious, but... did anyone actually take the time call Ray and ask him about this directly?

Yes he was asked about the fee's by at least two people

[DoubleDees]

Originally Posted by LJ Jubner

Yes he was asked about the fee's by at least two people

i do believe there was a discussion about this at the tournament in question. Im not quite sure what the total conclusion was but I do know that fees for the series did not come out of the tournament so this would be money coming straight out of Rays pockets if we asked him to pay it. I do also know when I was involved in this discussion he was still running the Last event and was going to be taking fees out for that one. I also understood he would be doing the overall standing for the rest of the year as payment for the fees. There was also something else which im not quite sure about. I do know the standings were posted at one point but have since stopped being updated. Perhaps another falling out between Ray and the club happened, I dont know.


as for Kennewick. If anyone has any questions directed at or about whats happening direct them to me and I can communicate with pretty much anyone here in the Tri-Cities area.

[LJ Jubner]

Originally Posted by DoubleDees

i do believe there was a discussion about this at the tournament in question. Im not quite sure what the total conclusion was but I do know that fees for the series did not come out of the tournament so this would be money coming straight out of Rays pockets if we asked him to pay it.

Here is the actual SC flyer
http://www.discgolftacoma.com/flyers/2009/2009springclassic.pdf

This is an interesting statement;
It is my belief that players who attended the SC were under the impression that it (SC) was still part of the 09 WA series. I even remember personally asking why If he did not want to run the series (Reason burnout) it was weird that he would still have the energy to run two of the current series events. So if he did not take out fee's then either the results from said event should be dropped or he failed to cover all his bases and should be held responsible for the fee's

Originally Posted by DoubleDees

I do also know when I was involved in this discussion he was still running the Last event and was going to be taking fees out for that one. I also understood he would be doing the overall standing for the rest of the year as payment for the fees. There was also something else which I'm not quite sure about. I do know the standings were posted at one point but have since stopped being updated. Perhaps another falling out between Ray and the club happened, I don't know.

Another interesting statement here.
SC Ran but no fee's taken, So what results needed to be kept
FC still TD but will take fee's for keeping scores and points as payment for effort.

Originally Posted by DoubleDees

as for Kennewick. If anyone has any questions directed at or about whats happening direct them to me and I can communicate with pretty much anyone here in the Tri-Cities area.

Who are you exactly?

[Scott]

Originally Posted by LJ Jubner

Who are you exactly?

Check his profile.
Ed Doppelmayr

[Tim]

I can't speak on the allegations because I wasn't there and haven't talked to the parties involved. I do know though, that someone else was keeping track of the series points and scores.

[ChUcK]

Um, I have all the series points scored to current. Let me work on a presentable version and I will post the results. (Including the Spring Classic).

[DMajor]

Originally Posted by ChUcK

Um, I have all the series points scored to current. Let me work on a presentable version and I will post the results. (Including the Spring Classic).

Your the man Chuck

[Magilla]

Originally Posted by REDFIVE

Like I previously stated mark kilmer is a dork.

I will PUSH this issue when I see him at Lava Launch....

[LJ Jubner]

Originally Posted by ChUcK

Um, I have all the series points scored to current. Let me work on a presentable version and I will post the results. (Including the Spring Classic).

Thanks ChUck for all your math skills.

I don't think the SC results should be counted because of non payment of fee's. I also don't think santoon should walk with the dough either. The WA series has been a "cash cow" for nearly 8 years now for him.

But when it's all said and done they will both happen because
A.the powers that be lack the stomach to confront king ray about the fee's he originally set up and then decided HE could keep. and
B. don't want to penalize the players for the SC misappropriated series funds.

What about you other TD's?
Are you mad you followed the rules, paid your agreed upon fee's and the Series Coord. did not?
If you played the SC voice your opinion here and now.

[erp]

If the fees were paid in response to an ad that explicitly stated that the event was part of the series, isn't it theft by swindle?

Maybe if the community can't bring about some equity, perhaps a visit from the boys in blue might?

Originally Posted by LJ Jubner

B. don't want to penalize the players for the SC misappropriated series funds.

[olydiscgolf]

I want to see the points for SC count in the series. It was played as part of the series and some players would miss out on qualifying if its taken away.

[REDFIVE]

Originally Posted by olydiscgolf

I want to see the points for SC count in the series. It was played as part of the series and some players would miss out on qualifying if its taken away.

If the event is taken off then the required events to qualify should be reduced also.

[olydiscgolf]

I think its a total bummer that the fees for the SC weren't paid, but I don't see the reason for wanting to void the points. I think any diciplinary action should happen to the TD of that event, not the players! We already lost the money from the tourney why take our points also?

[LJ Jubner]

Originally Posted by olydiscgolf

I think its a total bummer that the fees for the SC weren't paid, but I don't see the reason for wanting to void the points. I think any disciplinary action should happen to the TD of that event, not the players!

This is all well and good if the deadbeat TD ever plays or runs another event but if he does not then you are all stuck.

Originally Posted by olydiscgolf

We already lost the money from the tourney why take our points also?

Actually you have not lost the money yet. The phone number on the flyer works. Call it at all hours of the night and day and voice your opinion PERSONALLY about how f-up this is every time you call.Don't make em harassing just use things like

The series had run so well for so long, What changed?
You have such a good legacy why ruin it over $400?
The flyer said "event #3 of the 09 WA series". You took the money out for the series, why didn't you pay it out to the series?

Maybe peer pressure will work!

[ChUcK]

What's Paul's take on all this? I'm willing to go back and reconfigure the points stats to exclude the Spring Classic, but I'd rather not...

[DoubleDees]

Originally Posted by ChUcK

What's Paul's take on all this? I'm willing to go back and reconfigure the points stats to exclude the Spring Classic, but I'd rather not...

Paul was involved in the discussion with Ray that took place at the Classic. The fees were never taken out of the tournament prize pool so no one pocketed $400 that was suppose to go to the series. Instead of Ray paying the money himself which we know isnt going to happen. I was trying to figure out a way to work things out with all the parties that cared enough to voice their opinions. The only 3 I saw involved were Ray, Paul, and Kaleb. Everyone else was too worried about going home, drinking beer, or getting on the road.

Ray had stated he no longer wanted to run the series. One of the biggest chores of the series is adding 300+ players to the series totals when maybe 30 of them are going to end up with enough events to qualify. Someone else said they were going to be doing the series points which nothing had been done as of the Classic.

[LJ Jubner]

Originally Posted by DoubleDees

Paul was involved in the discussion with Ray that took place at the Classic. The fees were never taken out of the tournament prize pool so no one pocketed $400 that was suppose to go to the series. Instead of Ray paying the money himself which we know isn't going to happen. I was trying to figure out a way to work things out with all the parties that cared enough to voice their opinions. .

OK so supposedly Ray did not take out the fee's Eric you need to see the pDGA tournament report to find out if he did indeed not take the series fee's out or if he did.

Originally Posted by DoubleDees

Ray had stated he no longer wanted to run the series. One of the biggest chores of the series is adding 300+ players to the series totals when maybe 30 of them are going to end up with enough events to qualify. .

This is a good one
1st Why did there need to be 8-10 series events and you need to 5-6 qualify. Seems to me the series has a flaw then.
2nd King Ray wanted to be THE MAN and for 8 seasons to boot
3rd He was more then adequately compensated for his efforts no matter how much he whines about it

Originally Posted by DoubleDees

Someone else said they were going to be doing the series points which nothing had been done as of the Classic.

How many of the players who attended SC used "Stop #3 WA Series" as a criteria for your participation?

How many of you would the results being "dropped" affects your series standings; either positively (poor finish) or negatively (in the money)?

I still say Why should non payed results be allowed in series totals. If for no other reason then to reward the TD's who did what they agreed too.

[Bullseye]

Originally Posted by LJ Jubner

OK so supposedly Ray did not take out the fee's Eric you need to see the pDGA tournament report to find out if he did indeed not take the series fee's out or if he did.



This is a good one
1st Why did there need to be 8-10 series events and you need to 5-6 qualify. Seems to me the series has a flaw then.
2nd King Ray wanted to be THE MAN and for 8 seasons to boot
3rd He was more then adequately compensated for his efforts no matter how much he whines about it



How many of the players who attended SC used "Stop #3 WA Series" as a criteria for your participation?

How many of you would the results being "dropped" affects your series standings; either positively (poor finish) or negatively (in the money)?

I still say Why should non payed results be allowed in series totals. If for no other reason then to reward the TD's who did what they agreed too.

Whether money was collected for the series from this event or not, don't you think removing these results from the totals will only serve to punish the players. Really, its not the fault of the payers that these details were not sufficiently ironed out.