2009 Oregon Series Points - Page 3 - Oregon Events

dooley · #41 September 28th, 2009, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash

Trophies for Place in the event have nothing to do with trophies in the series. I hope you can see that the events are a single entity that is finalized at the event awards ceremony, while the series is a culmination of the entire series of events. Trophies in events are awarded based on place as well as play(how many strokes you throw) because it does not matter how you finished in third place the guy behind you still did not shoot better then you did. Is this making sense to anyone else on this forum?

yes....but in a series formula as yours[it is not how you finish,but how you play] maybe [how many strokes you throw] total should be a factor somehow...

but I do agree that....[it does not matter HOW you finished in third place the guy behind you still did not shoot better than you did.]....I just wish that had a numerical value in your formula as well

SMOKIN JOE · #42 September 28th, 2009, 10:12 PM

go nascar
a 1,2,5,8 beats a 1,2,3,3
not in nascar

"Over the Hill" Bob · #43 September 28th, 2009, 10:23 PM

I THINK I see Mikes thought process here, let me see if I'm right.

My basketball team has five players and play another team with five players. We get X number of points.

My team plays a team with only 3 players and we whup the heck out of them. Worth less points.

My team plays a team with only 2 players and we REALLY whup um. Worth even less points.

My team plays a team with 8 players and we beat them but barely. Worth more points than a win playing a team with 5 players but it was much more difficult.

Am I on the right track here?

Bob

"Over the Hill" Bob · #44 September 28th, 2009, 10:25 PM

Oh yeah..............thanks Mike for your work here.

Bob

dooley · #45 September 28th, 2009, 10:32 PM

I know there are NO SERIES AWARDS...and I thanked mike for all this work when I first saw it on here...I also explained while I was bummed at no series I was playin them all anyway....I do not wear panties nor are my underwear in a bunch....but when you say WHO WILL BE THE NEXT SERIES CHAMPIONS...I guess it gets me going......I have been playing 3 years so pardon me for gettin a little fired up at the chance of takin down the big dogs in any tourney or series...they made taking an ass whipping as fun as could be....I never intended for this to be more than it is.....Flash thanks again and I do have an idea....1 point per player in your divison available per tourney....20 players...19 points (you do not count yourself)...4 players 3 points etc. awarded in order......no problem with size of field issues....ties could be decided by total strokes....just a thought for next year....

SMOKIN JOE · #46 September 28th, 2009, 11:10 PM

no don't get that one
the teams should be even to start with
when did third place stop counting for something
damn near every sport has a 1,2,3
they usually stop awarding and counting after that
did you all watch the fed ex cup,
point system simular to nascar
the higher you finish the more points you recieve
as you go down the list the points become less between finishes
for example
1=500
2=450
3=405
4=365
gradually stairstepping down to
50=1
if you are out side the top 50 then you get no points
gold , silver , bronze ,
win , place , show ,
the podeum in all auto sports, 1,2,3
can't see how an 8th could be worth a 3rd in any occasion
the major 4 mojor sports only care about number 1, a victory
don't matter how you get it thier all the same
don't matter if it's 69-0 or 10-3
don't matter if you play the lions or the giants
by the way Hockey not bieng on of them, soccer
when did how bad you beat someone become important
shouldn't placing ahead of them be enough

RonTheWhip · #47 September 28th, 2009, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMOKIN JOE

no don't get that one
the teams should be even to start with
when did third place stop counting for something
damn near every sport has a 1,2,3
they usually stop awarding and counting after that
did you all watch the fed ex cup,
point system simular to nascar
the higher you finish the more points you recieve
as you go down the list the points become less between finishes
for example
1=500
2=450
3=405
4=365
gradually stairstepping down to
50=1
if you are out side the top 50 then you get no points
gold , silver , bronze ,
win , place , show ,
the podeum in all auto sports, 1,2,3
can't see how an 8th could be worth a 3rd in any occasion
the major 4 mojor sports only care about number 1, a victory
don't matter how you get it thier all the same
don't matter if it's 69-0 or 10-3
don't matter if you play the lions or the giants
by the way Hockey not bieng on of them, soccer
when did how bad you beat someone become important
shouldn't placing ahead of them be enough

I started reading this last post as an abstract poem and it actually sounds quite beautiful.

Seriously, there are so many different ways to calculate series winners its not even funny. Personally I like the way Mike does things and if this were to be the official method for next year I'd be down. Mike is the only person keeping track of things for our enjoyment, so the fact that any player in any division is having issues is ridiculous. Here are a few criteria that I think are important when deciding a series winner:

1. rewarding consistent play
2. rewarding high participation and attendence (bonus for attending more events)
3. stroke differentials (easy to do on a one event scale, impossible to do on an a seven event scale, since not every player will attend every event)
4. reward the 1st place finish, it is tough to win (especially in large fields), I would like to see a small bonus attached to the "W".
5. the more players you beat, the more points you should earn.

I'll be thinking more about this topic and try to develop my own method

Bullseye · #48 September 29th, 2009, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonTheWhip

I started reading this last post as an abstract poem and it actually sounds quite beautiful.

Seriously, there are so many different ways to calculate series winners its not even funny. Personally I like the way Mike does things and if this were to be the official method for next year I'd be down. Mike is the only person keeping track of things for our enjoyment, so the fact that any player in any division is having issues is ridiculous. Here are a few criteria that I think are important when deciding a series winner:

1. rewarding consistent play
2. rewarding high participation and attendence (bonus for attending more events)
3. stroke differentials (easy to do on a one event scale, impossible to do on an a seven event scale, since not every player will attend every event)
4. reward the 1st place finish, it is tough to win (especially in large fields), I would like to see a small bonus attached to the "W".
5. the more players you beat, the more points you should earn.

I'll be thinking more about this topic and try to develop my own method

Flash's method of calculating points is one of the best I have seen. I love the fact that you get points based on how you play in relation to the field. I also love the fact that if you only beat your opponents by a stroke you don't get as many points as you would have had you totally crushed them.

all2common · #49 September 29th, 2009, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonTheWhip

I started reading this last post as an abstract poem and it actually sounds quite beautiful.

That's rich. Thanks Dion for making my morning.

Matt B. · #50 September 29th, 2009, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dooley

I know there are NO SERIES AWARDS...and I thanked mike for all this work when I first saw it on here...I also explained while I was bummed at no series I was playin them all anyway....I do not wear panties nor are my underwear in a bunch....but when you say WHO WILL BE THE NEXT SERIES CHAMPIONS...I guess it gets me going......I have been playing 3 years so pardon me for gettin a little fired up at the chance of takin down the big dogs in any tourney or series...they made taking an ass whipping as fun as could be....I never intended for this to be more than it is.....Flash thanks again and I do have an idea....1 point per player in your divison available per tourney....20 players...19 points (you do not count yourself)...4 players 3 points etc. awarded in order......no problem with size of field issues....ties could be decided by total strokes....just a thought for next year....

Simple then. Put together the spreadsheet, show it to everyone, and declare yourself (or whoever) the champion of this way of calculating the ratings.

DexterHawk · #51 September 29th, 2009, 07:30 AM

Besides the champion of the Oregon Series is the winner in Open... the champion in Advanced is the winner of the guy who should have moved up a year ago award!

SMOKIN JOE · #52 September 29th, 2009, 08:00 AM

is golf not an individual sport
then why would the scores of other people effect your outcome
as for how bad you beat someone
take basketball for example
if your up 30 in the fourth quarter and still have your starters in
guaranteed one of them is going to get a hard foul
football, someone is going to get hurt
running up the score is not very sportsman like
being judged by how bad you beat someone is the same thing, unsportsmanlike
you should be happy to just beat someone, finish ahead of them, not how badly did i beat them, sounds to macho for me,
I'll stick to old school, sportsmanship
so when you're playing your not worried about just winning then
your worried about how bad you beat the next guy and how the rest of the field played that day, because that's how you become a series champion
finishing 1,2,3,3 and having less total strokes does not beat 1,2,5,8,
four trophies doesn't = 2 trophies
so where is this consistency your talking about
what it boils down to is how bad you beat the next guy and how the rest of the field plays

DexterHawk · #53 September 29th, 2009, 12:22 PM

Yes, but joe what if you want to compare the value of one win to another win... By examining how the rest of the field did by comparison you can compare victories.

It sounds like you are playing some great golf this summer... I'm sure people have noticed... Don't let the math get you down.

snap7times · #54 September 29th, 2009, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DexterHawk

Besides the champion of the Oregon Series is the winner in Open... the champion in Advanced is the winner of the guy who should have moved up a year ago award!

That's a great way to ruin the am division, accusing every possible winner of sandbagging? Someone has to win, can't blame the winner for staying in ADV and not crumbling to peer pressure to move up. If you look closely, there are way too many players playing up instead of their appropriate division or just one division up instead of two or three divisions up. We will always have "sandbaggers" and "eager bunnies who donate money to the division winners". Only way to get middle ground is to encourage peoeple to play their appropriate division or one division up and they make their own decision. Example, I'm 911 rated, I won the Intermediate division at Eugene with a 936 average. Should I move up? Had I played ADV, I would have been in like 18th place or something. Bah Hum Bug...

Matt B. · #55 September 29th, 2009, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snap7times

That's a great way to ruin the am division, accusing every possible winner of sandbagging? Someone has to win, can't blame the winner for staying in ADV and not crumbling to peer pressure to move up. If you look closely, there are way too many players playing up instead of their appropriate division or just one division up instead of two or three divisions up. We will always have "sandbaggers" and "eager bunnies who donate money to the division winners". Only way to get middle ground is to encourage peoeple to play their appropriate division or one division up and they make their own decision. Example, I'm 911 rated, I won the Intermediate division at Eugene with a 936 average. Should I move up? Had I played ADV, I would have been in like 18th place or something. Bah Hum Bug...

So now that you have a 1st place in MA2, will you move up to MA1?

You should.

RonTheWhip · #56 September 29th, 2009, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snap7times

That's a great way to ruin the am division, accusing every possible winner of sandbagging? Someone has to win, can't blame the winner for staying in ADV and not crumbling to peer pressure to move up. If you look closely, there are way too many players playing up instead of their appropriate division or just one division up instead of two or three divisions up. We will always have "sandbaggers" and "eager bunnies who donate money to the division winners". Only way to get middle ground is to encourage peoeple to play their appropriate division or one division up and they make their own decision. Example, I'm 911 rated, I won the Intermediate division at Eugene with a 936 average. Should I move up? Had I played ADV, I would have been in like 18th place or something. Bah Hum Bug...

Haha, Nate...Andy is just kidding. I feel because of the ORS, players are more reluctant to move up in order to place well in their division. Either way, its a good thing that more people play up than down, but it would be nice if more people played where they need to.

snap7times · #57 September 29th, 2009, 01:13 PM

We will see what my new rating is in 3 weeks... Probably around 920-925... Technically I don't have to move up until I reach 935... But it all depends on the tournament. In Oregon, especially, adv is rough, but fun, so it's a possibility... hehe... Damned if I stay, damned if I move up? I've already played several tournaments in MA1 so I do know what I am missing out on...

For fun, I looked up Eugene to see some stats based on Rating...
In the Open Division, I think anyone rated under 950 should play ADV. The highest finish by a under 950 rated player was 15th place. 8 more under 950 filled up the bottom half of the open division.
In the Adv Divison, I think anyone rated under 920 should play Int. The highest finish by a under 920 rated player was 7th, with the next 920 under rated player placing 28th with 7 of the last 10 spots in ADV with players rated 920 or less, 3 being less than 900, meaning they jumped up 2 divisions.
So lets say 6 of those 9 in ADV move down to INT and 3 went to Rec, the bottom 4-6 from INT played Rec, wow we would have like 7-9 in REC, and each feild would be much more competitive from ADV-REC... Just saying... *just giving everyone more reasons to never leave this website*

DexterHawk · #58 September 29th, 2009, 02:43 PM

When to move up and when you are sandbagging are both great questions... but when I was in the Am ranks it was quite clear that the winner ORS Advanced player of the year award could clearly have competed in PRO (Chandler would have won one of the tournaments).

Playing for the glory of winning Am was never that big of a goal of mine... anytime I began to feel like I should be winning my division I moved up. I had one win in Advanced and one in Intermediate, niether of them in the Oregon Series. My first trophy at an Oregon series event was a third place I got in Pro last year.

I could have stayed in Advanced for an extra year and I might have won two or three events, maybe... but I know that I would not be as good as I am now. There is nothing like actually failing (ie not making any cash) to motivate me to work on my game. And the counter part to your someone has to win argument is that someone has to lose.

I would rather lose with honor than to have to wonder if I was being a jerk. Basically what I tell guys is that you will know when it's the right time to move. It's different for everyone. But I do firmly believe that the only champion of any tournament is the winner in the Open division in Men and the Open division in Women. Some other folks won there division, those people won the tournament.

Bullseye · #59 September 29th, 2009, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snap7times

We will see what my new rating is in 3 weeks... Probably around 920-925... Technically I don't have to move up until I reach 935... But it all depends on the tournament. In Oregon, especially, adv is rough, but fun, so it's a possibility... hehe... Damned if I stay, damned if I move up? I've already played several tournaments in MA1 so I do know what I am missing out on...

For fun, I looked up Eugene to see some stats based on Rating...
In the Open Division, I think anyone rated under 950 should play ADV. The highest finish by a under 950 rated player was 15th place. 8 more under 950 filled up the bottom half of the open division.
In the Adv Divison, I think anyone rated under 920 should play Int. The highest finish by a under 920 rated player was 7th, with the next 920 under rated player placing 28th with 7 of the last 10 spots in ADV with players rated 920 or less, 3 being less than 900, meaning they jumped up 2 divisions.
So lets say 6 of those 9 in ADV move down to INT and 3 went to Rec, the bottom 4-6 from INT played Rec, wow we would have like 7-9 in REC, and each feild would be much more competitive from ADV-REC... Just saying... *just giving everyone more reasons to never leave this website*

Stay in Intermediate until the PDGA boots you up to Advanced. Thats how the system is supposed to work, and if everyone did it like that it would be working fine. Alas, the jump from Advanced to Open is not quite so clear cut.

Scott · #60 September 29th, 2009, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullseye

Stay in Intermediate until the PDGA boots you up to Advanced. Thats how the system is supposed to work, and if everyone did it like that it would be working fine. Alas, the jump from Advanced to Open is not quite so clear cut.

Words of wisdom, once again.