Oregon state disc golf championships

[SMOKIN JOE]

2 day one event, pdga or not don't care, lets get the state champoinships back on track, I'm willing to help or t.d. or anything, thanks again Kieth hopefully we can get this thing done and get a good format for deciding a champion

[Scott]

Somebody should check with Jerry Miller to see if he plans on holding a State Championship this year as he has in the past.

[Bullseye]

Originally Posted by Scott

Somebody should check with Jerry Miller to see if he plans on holding a State Championship this year as he has in the past.

I really don't think we need to ask for Jerry's permission, since he hasn't done it in a few years. Now, having him be involved in some fashion... that I have no problem with.

[LJ Jubner]

Originally Posted by Bullseye

Heh... Jub complaining about divisive crap. Heh. How ironical

I am as surprised as you are ladies and gentlemen

But still The questions remain

Smokin Is your suggestion of Qualifiers not the same as mine?

[Scott]

Originally Posted by Bullseye

I really don't think we need to ask for Jerry's permission, since he hasn't done it in a few years. Now, having him be involved in some fashion... that I have no problem with.

Not sure when he had done it last. Frankly, it's been done on such a small scale that I barely rememeber them.

However, condsider this scenario: Keith decides to hold a SC event in October. Jerry gets wind of it and decides to hold his own event a week earlier. Different players win each event - which one is our state champion?

Keeping Jerry in the loop will simplify things.

[keith_shupp]

Jub thanks I love your input but the times are changing and the way it use to be is over Im just trying to push this along and see what other people think. I know that we cant please every player and I know that I have troubles wanting to change but at least im trying. Sorry but a state championship is for the players who live in that state why would you want to come to Oregon and compete for that title. I dont get people when they say it should be open to all players. Im sure someone at the PDGA would understand that a state is trying to find out who is there best players in all divisions. If you look into other sports who have a state championship its only players from that state not others states.

This title is not the same as the Oregon series champion that is a player who competes in a series and point system. Who is looking to compete on the national level or to say they are the best series champion in the state. the Oregon state disc golf championship is one event to crown the best player for his or her division for the year. there are several other events for the sport in the state besides the series you have winter serie,summer series and team disc golf and non pdga events plus you have players who dont compete in those events and some course have weekly events so thats why you have a state championship to see who is the best player not just who the best PDGA player. this is truly a event for all who play disc golf in the state no matter what event they compete in.

This event is not on the schedual and its time to see a change in format and TD,s. I think it would be best for a club to take it on because each region has there own club and it will make it easyer to move around the state. it should never be at the same place each year to show off all the great courses in the state plus to get more people invold in the state event. In the past there has been hard fillings to where and who ran the event so this format would be the best way to change that feeling. No one has the rights to running the state event and Jerry has done a great job in the past but even he is tired and can see how the sport must grow and change.

[all2common]

Darn. Nobody liked the match to skins to singles play format? Where's Rideout to help me articulate what I'm trying to say...

[gwillim]

Originally Posted by all2common

Darn. Nobody liked the match to skins to singles play format? Where's Rideout to help me articulate what I'm trying to say...

My wallet liked it very much, thank you!

[LJ Jubner]

KSB
So What you are saying is the Touring players get all the spot light but might not be the best players in their division? Correct?

I want to use the Name Lance as typical DG in ORE
So, Players like Lance who does not play a whole lot of tour events might be the best Open Master, Maybe Open player who goes unrecognized? Not to throw Lance under the bus but Why does he not play more? Does he have a life apart from DG? (If so, Great for him! The sport needs more players who do it for fun not the competition) Maybe financial reasons kept him form showing his skills. It really does not matter why it's just he has decided not to play as often as others do. So Now we need to offer an entirely different Event to attract the Lances of the state.

And The ORE SC has been non sanctioned and local (at your home course no less) I am curious why don't you support the current event. It already has most of your points included. Residents only, Non Member or Sanctioned, All divisions. What's left? The only thing left is the TD.

[keith_shupp]

Originally Posted by LJ Jubner

KSB
So What you are saying is the Touring players get all the spot light but might not be the best players in their division? Correct?

I want to use the Name Lance as typical DG in ORE
So, Players like Lance who does not play a whole lot of tour events might be the best Open Master, Maybe Open player who goes unrecognized? Not to throw Lance under the bus but Why does he not play more? Does he have a life apart from DG? (If so, Great for him! The sport needs more players who do it for fun not the competition) Maybe financial reasons kept him form showing his skills. It really does not matter why it's just he has decided not to play as often as others do. So Now we need to offer an entirely different Event to attract the Lances of the state.

And The ORE SC has been non sanctioned and local (at your home course no less) I am curious why don't you support the current event. It already has most of your points included. Residents only, Non Member or Sanctioned, All divisions. What's left? The only thing left is the TD.

Jub you must be on drugs and dont get the point. The state event is for all levels of players in the state not just one group. The only reason to make the state championship PDGA is for the insurance and plus it brings in some of the players who only play pdga events and in Oregon you need insurance at most courses. we dont carry the million dollar insurance policy down here for each course like you do up there.

Jub lance and I would come up there to kick your ass but its not worth our time. I think you need a good ass kicking so I will give HERM a call so he can take care of some light work for us.

[Brian Heath]

So I just finished reading through all the posts and have a couple of thoughts.

I live in Vancouver. I consider myself a Washingtonian, however, I belong to Stumptown Disc Golf, play a heck of a lot of golf in the state of Oregon, and have contributed to the disc golf community in the Portland-Metro Area. So just because I live across the river I'm not allowed to participate in a tourney where most of my disc golf community live?

Second, I don't understand not having qualifying events to gain entry into a championship. It seems to make the most sense. If you are trying to determine who the best disc golfer is in the state of Oregon you would want to give everyone a chance to participate, however not every disc golfer in the state of Oregon is going to be able to play in a 2 day event. Having qualifying events would allow the opportunity for the best disc golfers from around the state to qualify for the state Championship, similar to what you would see in a high school sports. I liked Bob's idea of regions, those regions could hold events where players could earn a spot in the state championship based off criteria. You would then have the top qualified players in the championship. If I didn't make the event because I failed to qualify I would be more willing to be a spectator to watch the event and try that much harder next time. By holding one event and calling it the state championship is just a name it has no real meaning to me it would be like me having an event in Vancouver and calling it the SW Washington Championship, which wouldn't be that impressive.

Finally, I can see both sides of the PDGA and non-PDGA argument, I think the important thing would be to make sure that the event is as legit as possible. That there will be standards to keep the play fair and rules clear. I do believe it is important to have the insurance in place and not just a token plan (see Beaver State Fling for the significance of insurance). Currently there is not a better option for assuring that these standards are held except through the PDGA. Until there is another option that is recognized not just at the state level but at the national/world then I think you go with the standard.

Just some thoughts

[SMOKIN JOE]

sorry you live in Washington, does it really make sence to have the Oregon champion from Finland, Florida, China, one of the things we did in the past for these instances was we had an out of state champion trophy on the line for those still wanting to play but weren't from Oregon, do agree with all the golfers we have now to have some sort of qualifing,

[Flash]

Originally Posted by SMOKIN JOE

sorry you live in Washington, does it really make sence to have the Oregon champion from Finland, Florida, China, one of the things we did in the past for these instances was we had an out of state champion trophy on the line for those still wanting to play but weren't from Oregon, do agree with all the golfers we have now to have some sort of qualifing,

What does it matter who carries the trophy home, the top finishing player from Oregon is the Best Player in Oregon period. Look at any other disc golf tournament labeled the XXX State Championships and you will see that people from different states were competing. That is why it will be hard for Stumptown to get behind something like this as we would have to alienate part of our membership for the event.

It would be like in Kansas City, a city split by the borders of Missouri and Kansas not allowing one or the other state to compete in a State Championship type event. They would be splitting their club in half just to crown a State Champion under the rules presented in this thread.

[SMOKIN JOE]

then why call it the Oregon State Championships, the whole point is the state of Oregon, so if someone who has never been to Oregon comes and wins you would have no problem with the trophy hanging on the wall in Berlin, what's wrong with an out of state champion trophy, so if we have an Oregon team for team golf someone from Washington could be on it, it's not a true state championship if people from outside the state or competing for the crown, I don't know why you would want to be a state champion from a state you don't reside, don't you have a club championship for your club members, still don't understand why someone would be upset by where they choose to live, or by what club they belong to, I'm a very good pool player got just as many trophies there, when trying to win a yearly spot in vages you qualify by were you live, no one from outside the state is at the beach trying to be the state champion, first you have to play yourself out of your county, then you move up to state, then you move on to nationals, bob's way is alot like that, sounds good to me qualify from your area, then move up to the finals, still back to the same thing why would you want to be a champion from a state in which you don't reside

[Brian Heath]

Originally Posted by SMOKIN JOE

sorry you live in Washington, does it really make sence to have the Oregon champion from Finland, Florida, China, one of the things we did in the past for these instances was we had an out of state champion trophy on the line for those still wanting to play but weren't from Oregon, do agree with all the golfers we have now to have some sort of qualifing,

I'm not saying it should be or has to be open for anyone because I do agree with trying to crown a Oregon Champion, but if you went by say regions, the Portland-metro could include SW Washington (Portland already considers us part of itself anyway). And really it isn't that big a deal, it is just a thought.

[SMOKIN JOE]

I feel for ya man , you do more in oregon than washington, you probably feel more like an oregon player, if it does end up by regions, I could see someone giving leeway,

["Over the Hill" Bob]

If done right, with adequate planning, and well executed, I see the potential for not just an Oregon Championship, but a standard by which we could see a Washington Championship, a California Championship, a Nevada Championship and so on. Maybe a National Championship? A few days of banter on the forums and rushing to get something on the schedule, just for the sake of getting something done right now isn't, IMO, the way to do it. As we have seen here there are many ideas of how it should or could be done. At this point it is still too divisive to go forward without alienating a lot of people. More thought needs to go into this, again IMO, and do it right. I know we are "jonesing" to crown a champ, but lets do it right. Not this year but next.

Bob

[Flash]

Originally Posted by SMOKIN JOE

then why call it the Oregon State Championships, the whole point is the state of Oregon, so if someone who has never been to Oregon comes and wins you would have no problem with the trophy hanging on the wall in Berlin, what's wrong with an out of state champion trophy, so if we have an Oregon team for team golf someone from Washington could be on it, it's not a true state championship if people from outside the state or competing for the crown, I don't know why you would want to be a state champion from a state you don't reside, don't you have a club championship for your club members, still don't understand why someone would be upset by where they choose to live, or by what club they belong to, I'm a very good pool player got just as many trophies there, when trying to win a yearly spot in vages you qualify by were you live, no one from outside the state is at the beach trying to be the state champion, first you have to play yourself out of your county, then you move up to state, then you move on to nationals, bob's way is alot like that, sounds good to me qualify from your area, then move up to the finals, still back to the same thing why would you want to be a champion from a state in which you don't reside

I don't know, it may seem crazy, but how many people compete in the US Championships of disc golf or ball golf that are not from the US? Is it silly of them to want to compete or try to win the Championship just because they are not from the US?

[LJ Jubner]

Originally Posted by keith_shupp

Jub you must be on drugs and don't get the point. The state event is for all levels of players in the state not just one group. The only reason to make the state championship PDGA is for the insurance and plus it brings in some of the players who only play pdga events and in Oregon you need insurance at most courses. we don't carry the million dollar insurance policy down here for each course like you do up there.

Correct me if I am wrong but If you pay to use a state park in ORE and they still require an additional policy for each event?

I believe the Million dollar rider is because of herm's confrintational attitude towards the city of SeaTac. I know the "Working Relationship" I have with the city of Arlington requires me not to need a separate policy for DG events

Originally Posted by keith_shupp

Jub lance and I would come up there to kick your ass but its not worth our time. I think you need a good ass kicking so I will give HERM a call so he can take care of some light work for us.

I am pretty sure I have been called out here; is there not some rule about this type of behaviour or is this like the old days?

KSB I am also sure Lance understood my example. But clearly you did not.

And your BOY herm does not bother me in the slightest. One thing is for sure He will be going back to jail if he does as you put "do some light work for us." If all works out you should be joining him. Hope you like all home games.

Now back to our show.

Originally Posted by LJ Jubner

KSB And The ORE SC has been non sanctioned and local (at your home course no less) I am curious why don't you support the current event. It already has most of your points included. Residents only, Non Member or Sanctioned, All divisions. What's left? The only thing left is the TD.

Answer the questions.

[SMOKIN JOE]

yes if you want a real oregon champion, I personaly would feel that I'm disrespecting the natives if I was not one of them, and in ball golf only the top players outside the u.s. get to play, they are not welcome like me and you to try to qualify for the u.s. open, thousands of people every year try to qualify for the u.s. open and it depends on where you live, and those tournaments are also apart of a championship seriers, the u.s. ametuers is only for people in the u.s. and again it goes by where you live, the original british open was only open to club members, then to all brits, then once money was the main factor for sponsers and ticket sales then they started inviting the best of the world to play, now you have to qualify, same with our open, it was u.s. only to start, I don't see that we are in that same situation, hell why not make the fling the state championships that way your assured the best players are here from all over, people will have different opinions and the powers to be will decide what they think is right, an out of state trophy seem easy enough to me, comes back to the same ol thing, why would you want to, seems disrespectful