Barsby's putt--falling or no?

[Chuck Kennedy]

Originally Posted by Sam

throwing towards one's bag would be a violation of this rule. Just like you cannot stand 5 feet away from someone and play catch after the two minute warning.

Not true. You may toss back to your bag up to 2m without penalty. But if your bag is in front of you towards the target, then a player could technically call you for a practice throw no matter how short the toss including inserting the disc partway into the sleeve and letting it slide down the rest of the way...

[smobro]

Originally Posted by ChUcK

Stance violation. If nobody calls it, then play on. Foolishness is certainly not an attempt to circumvent the rules, and the lie doesn't belong to another player.

Has this happened to a card of yours before, smobro?

Nope. My rediculous move was in the Fling this year. I walk up to my disc pick it up, go back to my bag get the disc I want to throw, go back to my marker......OOOOPpps I forgot to mark. I Froze, looked around and saw that no one on my card was paying attention, and then said hey guys, I have a problem here. Still standing where my mark was approximately I explained the bonehead move and asked if anyone knew what I should do at this point. Someone in the group who seemed to know more about the rules than anyone else said, it is a stroke and I have to mark from the approximate lie. I did that. We ran into Cris Bellinger a while later and he said it was a warning but then allowed me to reduce my score by the stroke I took as a penalty and allowed me to add a stroke to the dude on my card who told me to take a stroke. Just Kidding. I should always carry a rule book.

[smobro]

Originally Posted by Chuck Kennedy

Not true. You may toss back to your bag up to 2m without penalty. But if your bag is in front of you towards the target, then a player could technically call you for a practice throw no matter how short the toss including inserting the disc partway into the sleeve and letting it slide down the rest of the way...

My question is how far can you toss your bag without a stroke if you are throwing away from a target?

[smobro]

Originally Posted by Scott

He tries it all the time. You have to watch him like a hawk. Crafty bastard.

Thats what your mom said too

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Chuck Kennedy

Not true. You may toss back to your bag up to 2m without penalty. But if your bag is in front of you towards the target, then a player could technically call you for a practice throw no matter how short the toss including inserting the disc partway into the sleeve and letting it slide down the rest of the way...

I stand corrected. Thanks, Chuck.

[ChUcK]

It's a little weird that there is no definition of "target" included in the rulebook. The word is used when defining "Disc Entrapment Device" and "Hole". In the "spirit of the game" argument, the target means either the basket or mando in play. In the "spirit of the barrister" argument I would have to agree that anything could be considered a target because that word isn't specifically defined.

So then it comes down to what the person considered their target as they made that <2m toss. I'd argue that you don't get to decide what someone else aiming at, just like you don't get to decide the playability of another person's lie.

[Chuck Kennedy]

From 803.03A: ...A marker inadvertently moved prior to the throw shall be returned to its correct location.

No official warning involved. Since the thrown disc itself can be a marker, the fact you accidentally moved it then needed to replace it fits this rule segment.

[Chuck Kennedy]

Originally Posted by ChUcK

It's a little weird that there is no definition of "target" included in the rulebook. The word is used when defining "Disc Entrapment Device" and "Hole". In the "spirit of the game" argument, the target means either the basket or mando in play. In the "spirit of the barrister" argument I would have to agree that anything could be considered a target because that word isn't specifically defined.

The items that are targets are defined in the rules and the golf bag is not one of them. For example, the Line of Play definition identifies targets as does the Playing the stipulated course identify the "Worng Target." I agree the Target should be defined in a future update since we also have PDGA specs for targets just like we do for discs which is included in the rulebook.

[Flash]

Originally Posted by Sam

This happened in the Final 9 at the Bad Monkey Open.

As an aside, I saw at least two of the final 9 guys tossing their disc back to their bags. Had I been a participant, I would have called a penalty for practice shots. I was a little stunned that no one said anything, really.

On hole 4 I think of the final 9 I mentioned it to Brice's caddie to mention to Brice to be careful of his distance of throwing his disc backwards. It was close to two meters. He was not aware of the rule and was happy to be informed.

This was the first time I personally had witnessed it!

[Flash]

Originally Posted by Chuck Kennedy

The items that are targets are defined in the rules and the golf bag is not one of them. For example, the Line of Play definition identifies targets as does the Playing the stipulated course identify the "Worng Target." I agree the Target should be defined in a future update since we also have PDGA specs for targets just like we do for discs which is included in the rulebook.

Can Tone Poles still be used in PDGA tournament Play?, I think target was because of this inclusion and I believe it was defined in a previous rule book (target)

[LegoRules]

I have a question if you putt and step over your mini wether you loose your balance or not is that a fault. Happened in my group this weekend where inside the circle they released their putt, and after the release they stepped over their mini not necessarily loosing their balance, but just simply stepped over it. I really don't even think it had hit chains yet when they stepped over it. This was this person's first tournament, so I did not call them on it. I did mention it after the hole was completed that I thought they probably should watch that in the future. Also same person we were looking for a lost disc, and one of this person's friends picked up my mini before I took my 2nd shot. They thought I had left it, but would that have been a stoke on that person since it was their friend. I think I was way too nice cause that is potentially two stokes I let slide, which would have tied me for first

Cindy

[Scott]

Originally Posted by LegoRules

I have a question if you putt and step over your mini wether you loose your balance or not is that a fault. Happened in my group this weekend where inside the circle they released their putt, and after the release they stepped over their mini not necessarily loosing their balance, but just simply stepped over it. I really don't even think it had hit chains yet when they stepped over it. This was this person's first tournament, so I did not call them on it. I did mention it after the hole was completed that I thought they probably should watch that in the future. Also same person we were looking for a lost disc, and one of this person's friends picked up my mini before I took my 2nd shot. They thought I had left it, but would that have been a stoke on that person since it was their friend. I think I was way too nice cause that is potentially two stokes I let slide, which would have tied me for first

Cindy

The first example is pretty clear cut - that would be a falling putt. When inside the circle you must display balance before moving past your marker. Keep in mind that this not an automatic penalty. The first offense is a warning and the offending player retakes the putt.

The second example is a little tricky. Was the friend a caddy, or just a spectator? If the friend was a caddy, then the rules seem pretty clear:

803.07 C. Any player who consciously alters the course of a thrown disc, or consciously moves or
obscures another player's thrown disc at rest or a marker disc, other than by the action of a
competitively thrown disc or in the process of identification, shall receive two penalty
throws, without a warning, if observed by any two players or an official.

and

801.01 D. Players are responsible for the actions of their caddies.
Players shall receive warnings and penalties (where applicable) for the
actions of their caddies.

However, if the person who moved the marker disc was merely a spectator then the marker would be moved to its approximate location without penalty per

803.07 B B. If a disc at rest on the playing surface or supported by the target is moved, the disc shall be replaced as close as possible to its original location, as determined by a majority of the group or an official. If a marker disc is moved, the marker disc shall be replaced as close as possible to its original location, as determined by a majority of the group or an official.

[Chuck Kennedy]

Originally Posted by Flash

Can Tone Poles still be used in PDGA tournament Play?, I think target was because of this inclusion and I believe it was defined in a previous rule book (target)

Yes. See table on page 4: http://www.pdga.com/files/documents/09TourStandardsV1-2.pdf