Lakewood Open

[Tim]

Those crazy Dalaiwood kids...they've got some game. Once they get their consistency down, Olalla, WA is going to be like the next Springfield, OR.

[Flash]

Originally Posted by ChUcK

Is that Spencer you're talking about? 5 long? Are you sure? That hole is >400ft...

On the other hand, it looks like Washington has fired a return salvo that reads as:
Jason Pinkal was outdriven by a 13-year old

Anyone can throw past that basket that takes no skill at all, its the ones that throw with just enough power on it to get there and touch the pole that you need to worry about! Throwing past the basket is just a bunch of wasted energy!!!

[GettinBetter]

I disagree with you that anyone can throw 400 ft, and I dont think you can find a 13yr old that can either. This hole is not wide open either you have to put it through a pretty narrow spot about 300 feet out. And finally I dont think throwing 10ft past a basket is wasted energy.

[cefire]

I put together a bunch of video clips as a preview video for the Lakewood Open. I've also got final 9 video which I'll be putting up soon.

Check it out here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqCWnhTeGDc

[Flash]

Originally Posted by GettinBetter

I disagree with you that anyone can throw 400 ft

That is your right but I think you are thinking too narrowly

Originally Posted by GettinBetter

I dont think you can find a 13yr old that can either

Wrong, David Wiggins Jr check him out Innova Link. Oh by the way he was achieving that distance at age 11

Originally Posted by GettinBetter

This hole is not wide open either you have to put it through a pretty narrow spot about 300 feet out.

Awesome sounds like a great hole, but someone hit the window right so it just comes down to someone with the proper amount of power and trajectory to hit that shot. How many times did this individual make this shot one time or multiple times. Why do I ask, well because I am a statistician and I would like to know if the kid got lucky on the trajectory because we know he obviously has the power to acheive the distance

Originally Posted by GettinBetter

And finally I dont think throwing 10ft past a basket is wasted energy.

Well my guess is that you have never studied the concept of energy and the conservation of energy. Because if the disc went 10 feet pasted the basket it was 10 feet further then it needed to go. By the way before you said it was a couple of feet from the hole and now it is 10 feet past the basket, which one is it?

Oh and by the way I was having fun with my previous post something along the lines of sarcasm and I am assuming that you were not with your reply so that is why I went all specific with this reply!

[Kenny B]

Originally Posted by GettinBetter

Oh, and referencing tyvek's post. I had a 13 yr old in my group and he put his drive on #5 (long) a couple feet from the hole and putted easily for birdie. It was crazy.

Originally Posted by GettinBetter

I disagree with you that anyone can throw 400 ft, and I dont think you can find a 13yr old that can either. This hole is not wide open either you have to put it through a pretty narrow spot about 300 feet out. And finally I dont think throwing 10ft past a basket is wasted energy.

Well, I personally know this 13 year old who can drive 400 ft, and he's not the only teen out here in Kitsap county with some serious game!

West Side!!!!!!!!!

[GettinBetter]

Kyle only took one shot at that hole not multiple

I am a mathematics major also, and maybe if the wind was stagnant then it might have been a "waste" of energy. But since that is not the case this wasted effort is negligable.

I know who wiggins jr. is Ive known about him since he was 9.

i think you need to be more specific when you "anyone can throw 400ft" I know a lot of anyones who wish that were true.

Maybe you should start your own line of discs and the tag line should be "anyone can throw 400ft"

Shoot I would prolly even buy one.

[snap7times]

Hey,

I am going to make this short and to the point, I received some information about the Lakewood Open and the behavior of some hearing players toward the Deaf players at this event. I want to make it clear that being Deaf does not mean that we are completely Deaf and noises do not bother us as they would bother anyone else when it is their turn to throw. Also, common sense, a Deaf person's line of sight is much more wider than a hearing's disc golfers line of sight as our eyes are more sensitive to anything in a 180 degree angle, which means there needs to be more sensitivity to their line of sight and move to a place where it will not bother the thrower.
I know at least 90 percent of us get along just great and we respect eachother's needs for quiet and clear lines of sight for the thrower, but it is the few players that need to be educated on courtesy for eachother during tournaments. This is in no way pointing fingers at a certain person or group, just want to make it clear for anyone that might have thought differently.

[ChUcK]

Originally Posted by snap7times

which means there needs to be more sensitivity to their line of sight and move to a place where it will not bother the thrower.

I was unaware of any part of the rulebook that says some players get to be treated differently than others.

Deafness doesn't keep a competitor from calling a courtesy violation. What's the problem here?

[snap7times]

Originally Posted by ChUcK

I was unaware of any part of the rulebook that says some players get to be treated differently than others.

Deafness doesn't keep a competitor from calling a courtesy violation. What's the problem here?

Let's just say that the players on the same card did not respect their repeated request to get out of their line of sight and they didn't know it was a firm rule under courtesy violations so they didnt call it. And they were yapping away thinking they were being unheard while it was their turn to throw.. that paint a better picture?

[GettinBetter]

A sad thing is that some people are just naturally assholes.

[ChUcK]

Originally Posted by snap7times

Let's just say that the players on the same card did not respect their repeated request to get out of their line of sight and they didn't know it was a firm rule under courtesy violations so they didnt call it. And they were yapping away thinking they were being unheard while it was their turn to throw.. that paint a better picture?

I don't need the picture painted, not with 4th hand knowledge of the event. I talked to both parties concerned and the issue seems simple to me.

You said that deaf players deserve preferential treatment, and I said yeah right. The only way any different treatment is necessary is when recording scores. I would have to change the way I sign the number three from the way I normally would, with an OK sign, to what is actually three, thumb/pointer/ring finger. Otherwise, I would give you the exact same courtesy as anyone else, and expect the same in return.

Oh, I guess a more aggressive approach to avoid incoming discs could be in order, as well.

[snap7times]

I never mentioned preferential treatment, just stating the obvious since it just isn't obvious to some people. One person's common sense is another person's ignorance.

[ChUcK]

Originally Posted by snap7times

there needs to be more sensitivity to their line of sight

Originally Posted by snap7times

I never mentioned preferential treatment

You should probably edit one of those posts, just so they match up with one another.

[Trozzle!!!]

Its common knowledge that a loss of one sense or another leads to better use of the other senses. I am not saying that because a player is deaf that you need to stand farther back out of sight than you would for a hearing player. I dont think Snap's biggest problem was because of that.

I already knew, but found out more when working at the 2009 ODDCG. Many deaf people can actually hear. They may be medically "deaf" but with the use of hearing aids, or actually being able to hear some what naturally, they are still considered deaf.

Just because they are "deaf" doesnt give anyone the right to just keep on talking normally because the person who is throwing is "deaf". There is a chance that he or she can still hear you, and it could throw off their throw. I think this is what Snap was most concerened with.

[Mystjava]

I might as well as try to clear things up a bit here.. It might offend some but then it might shed some light on what's going on. When a deaf (or hard of hearing - hoh) person comes up to the tee to play, it is respectful to give them the same benifit of "slience" which would be visual as providing silence (no talking) for the hearing person as well. Yes, some of us do have hearing aids to aid in understanding things and with communication. But our aids are not always the answer - I can't hear when someone is behind me - I do prefer to read lips and have someone speak clearly - not loudly, but clearly. If I am not wearing my hearing aids - I cannot hear you.. I won't be able to understand the lip reading either - so I would revet back to using ASL. However, I am still sensitive to some sounds and to visual cues.

I'm sure that some of us are uncomfortable when someone smokes while playing disc golf, so it is usual customs to move away from the group so the smoke doesn't bother the other players. Common sense? Yeah, I thought so, so in respect - it would be common sense to be "silent" in all forms. Some of us are more sensitive than others, but also some of us have a hard time trying to explain why we need to be respectful without much fingerpointing.

Thirdly and finally - if you're a new player who is going to play for the first PDGA tournament, please to take the time to read the players' manual (PDGA rules and guidelines) so you're aware of what to expect and when to expect it. Please do stand behind the tee - regardless if your disc is way up to the left about twenty feet ahead of one players' disc.. It is respectful to wait behind the "tee" (invisible or not). Please use your eyes to see where everyone else is - who's up, who's next? Use common sense - in a tournament - we need to be ready at all times. Get your disc out and be ready to go.

As if the offense was regarding how slow the round went - sorry - there is nothing I can do about that. I am not going to come up with excuse, but I will say - some of us just walks slower than others - think about it -

I do appreciate you learning the simple signs for the numbers, when it came down to recording the information. The same can be done when we're trying to show who's first, second, third, and so forth. Again .. I hope this will become a learning experience for all of us.

[snap7times]

Originally Posted by ChUcK

You should probably edit one of those posts, just so they match up with one another.

pffllltttt, in general, slight movements anywhere in the 180 or 178 degrees to be exact of the view of the Deaf person will most likely become an eyesore and will disrupt focus as most of the time a hearing person will not even notice something to the side.
I've played enough tournaments to notice the dramatic differences in visual courtesy in PDGA and DDGA tournaments, and I do mean dramatic... Only reason I bring it up is because it happened at lakewood repeatedly, being in the 178 degrees of vision for a certain player and the group didnt think it was such a big deal even when asked to move out of the view... Anyone that has played with me knows this, get out of my vision and I stay out of yours... Not asking for preferential treatment, its in the rules in the handbook, 801.01, period... bending it just cuz it dosent seem to bother you is just not cool...

now let's move on, didn't think anyone would debate it...

[ChUcK]

Mystjava, that pretty much sums up the way I think all golfers should treat one another, with equal courtesy and 'silence' in all respects, such as smoke, noise, and motion.

When it comes to being in front of another person's lie, hmmm. I've seen the best of them all gathered around the circle watching each other putt during sudden-death play-offs (stationary, of course) and I've seen the most hard-core 905-rated ams freak out with a competitor at the very edge of their peripheral vision during a weekly doubles match.

A crow will caw right as you reach back for your approach shot. A mosquito will fly up your nose sometimes. The wind makes the trees sway all over the place. The best golfers are able to remove those distractions with their impeccable control over their mind, not their impeccable control over the environment. Fellow competitors will always be distractions, it's impossible to not be one. Intentional distractions are disallowed by the rules, but unintentional distractions (like the next card walking down the fairway 300 ft ahead) are fine, and must be dealt with by you.

Besides, how can we ever expect to draw huge golf crowds if the gallery is required to always be in the rear 180 degrees of the current thrower? It would be a damn human stampede at each green as the spectators scrambled to get out of the way of the next putt, especially if the card had the basket surrounded. If there's motion in your field of vision that you can't control, then deal with it. If you can control it, then do. (something about the wisdom to know the difference.)

oh, and trozzle!!!, your post is not worthy of quoting and refuting.

[Mystjava]

Originally Posted by ChUcK

When it comes to being in front of another person's lie, hmmm. I've seen the best of them all gathered around the circle watching each other putt during sudden-death play-offs (stationary, of course) and I've seen the most hard-core 905-rated ams freak out with a competitor at the very edge of their peripheral vision during a weekly doubles match.

This I can deal with because it is at the hole - it's the approaches from tee off to the basket is what bugs me when we cannot respect each other.

Originally Posted by ChUcK

A crow will caw right as you reach back for your approach shot. A mosquito will fly up your nose sometimes. The wind makes the trees sway all over the place. The best golfers are able to remove those distractions with their impeccable control over their mind, not their impeccable control over the environment. Fellow competitors will always be distractions, it's impossible to not be one. Intentional distractions are disallowed by the rules, but unintentional distractions (like the next card walking down the fairway 300 ft ahead) are fine, and must be dealt with by you.

Besides, how can we ever expect to draw huge golf crowds if the gallery is required to always be in the rear 180 degrees of the current thrower? It would be a damn human stampede at each green as the spectators scrambled to get out of the way of the next putt, especially if the card had the basket surrounded. If there's motion in your field of vision that you can't control, then deal with it. If you can control it, then do. (something about the wisdom to know the difference.)

Those are part of the daily activities - it is to be expected - and I usually handle those alright, but when someone is disrespectful and have been told previously, then thats a different question all together.

Chuck - thanks for taking the time to listen and to be a voice of concern. I appreciate it! We need players who applies their common sense and wisdom/patience of understanding!

[snap7times]

rightttt... I was only speaking of the situations we can easily control.. Interesting enough is a PDGA final 9 with a huge gallery is wayyyy different than a DDGA final 9 in terms of spectator control. Both are exactly the same however different expectations are had of the spectators, we carry sniper rifles and pop anyone in sight of the throwers... nono just kidding... since trozzle is the only person on here to experience both pdga and ddga galleries for the final round, wonder if he noticed any differences or they the same?