new tradition

[ChUcK]

Originally Posted by gwillim

LOL, that's a pretty good comeback. The only problem is that the tree had been dead for many, many years. They were even holding it up with some 4x4s to brace it up. I don't know if it died due to the shoes or whatnot, but saying that the tree "collapsed under the weight" is not exactly accurate.

Still a smooth comeback, for sure!

True, the tree had other problems besides the shoes, but they certainly caused it to collapse prematurely...

The article I read (when it finally toppled) stressed the fact that the shoes didn't kill the tree, it was dead before the first pair of Jordans ever graced a branch.

[Ol' Bob]

Originally Posted by Sam

Agreed. It was dumb to post it. Now it will be easier to clean up the mess that most see this as.

Oh... and you seem pretty zealous in wishing to grant the Hagg folks the right to deface a tree, Bob. What's that all about?

Go back and read all of my posts. Pennies stuck up with tree sap won't be there all that long, and the pennies will be but pennies again. Where is the concern for the vine maples near death or gone from disc strikes at Pier Park and other places. I see that the vine maples and cascaras here at Mud that are in the way have lost chunks of bark, and have I have to accept that as a trade-off to have the course. There are many more cascaras, and unlike the vine maples, are not shade tolerant anyway, and so, die off in the woods.

I believe the trade-offs involved in disc golf are good and worth it because they get people into the woods to do something besides cut them down for some rich asshole. We share this earth in common. Those pennies took nothing from me. Certainly they won't kill a tree like disc strikes surely can. It's just that some of us don't like it with a religious enthusiasm. I feel that way about cigarette butts and wish those who toss them on my course would tell me how many butts they saw here before they tossed their own. The pennies aren't garbage and the application is, in my opinion, a respectful one, where the butts are garbage of a most unclean kind.

I'm sad that I can't seem to bring anyone around to my viewpoint, which is one that's long thought out, and I believe well considered. I think I've made plenty of good points in an argument that I believe should not even be one. Such a small passing impact, when compared to this sport we love, which is far and away, superior to say, going into the woods with rifles to collect trophies and meat at such cost.

Our species leaves far too big a footprint on our planet, not from our being here, nor even our inventiveness. The problem is in our motivations and our incomplete knowledge. "Because I say so" is not sufficient for any respectable limitations, and all of us should always balk at that. We should try to fathom the issues to the roots and get us a solution that will allow us to stay here and enjoy what we have in understanding. Ignorance just don't serve.

[Sam]

If we leave far too big of a footprint, why would we want to do something that adds to that footprint? Wouldn't it be best to NOT litter the course - even if it is with pennies? It has been voted on and the vast majority feel that this is littering. Can't you even begin to see that point of view?

[TreeLove]

Originally Posted by Trozzle!!!

Us crazy Hagg people started a new tradition out there. we started a penny tree on hole 9's tee pad. you will see it when you go out there. If you wish to contribute, go ahead and do so. take a penny, carve your initials onto your first one, and everytime you go out there, add another one below it. we just melt tree sap onto it to stick it to the tree.

You crazy Hagg people. That's just crazy. I wish I were that crazy. You're crazy!

(I, too, like to melt stuff. Like that kid on Friends.)

(I also like to carve. Whittle, actually.)

[Ol' Bob]

Like I said, it's a religious point of view, based on belief. The same zealots will chop a tree and put up an art gallery. It takes one to know one, and I too am a hypocrite in good standing. We have to look both ways when crossing, even on a one-way street.

[Jet]

After reading all the posts, I still like the tradition.

["Over the Hill" Bob]

Originally Posted by Trozzle!!!

I had to go back and look again as I thought I saw something inconsistant in the picture. As mentioned somewhere in this thread this TRADITION might lead to further "traditions". There is already a bottle cap framing a pennie. How many more caps are to come? The pennies, may or maynot be environmentally bad but how many rusty bottles caps does it take? One thing leads to another and another and another. Best to not start in the beginning. How about if we sap stick a hub cap to a tree at each tee pad and then we can sap stick a bottle cap with a pennie sap stuck inside that. A true work of art, yes?

Bob

[Jet]

Originally Posted by "Over the Hill" Bob

I had to go back and look again as I thought I saw something inconsistant in the picture. As mentioned somewhere in this thread this TRADITION might lead to further "traditions". There is already a bottle cap framing a pennie. How many more caps are to come? The pennies, may or maynot be environmentally bad but how many rusty bottles caps does it take? One thing leads to another and another and another. Best to not start in the beginning. How about if we sap stick a hub cap to a tree at each tee pad and then we can sap stick a bottle cap with a pennie sap stuck inside that. A true work of art, yes?

Bob

Good eye Bob, I missed the bottle cap.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Jet

After reading all the posts, I still like the tradition.

Alas... it will be gone sometime in the near future.

[Flash]

Originally Posted by Trozzle!!!

the parks people out at Hagg are cool with us. The main people pretty much give us the go ahead to do what we want with the course as long as it is out of our pockets. Also normally they would be pissed to drive along the road and see a bag of trash there, but they know that we go out there often to pick up trash. we just drop our bags along the road and they come pick it up later.

I would be interested Troy in who you have been working with and if they are a representative of Washington County? According to my Grant Proposal meeting with the Washington County Recreation and Tourism Board, they indicated that the property is under the control of Washington County. (Hagg Lake) Can you share some information on your contact?

Penny or not its littering, many businesses have in the past put signs up to not throw coins into fountains and ponds. Obviously currency is not always a good thing!

I would say Troy that you should ask for permission from a county parks representative and if they say its OK you go ahead and do it.

[erp]

Just to clarify, one of the posts up there seems to suggest that the redneck chandeliers are litter when they fall, and not when they are up in a tree.

They're litter in any situation and add nothing to the course.

I saw them in both situations yesterday at McGiver and wanted to eviscerate the knuckle-walking 'artisan' that inflicts their work on that course - luckily if I ever catch the dipshit in the act, there's a lot of space to hide a body

[Ol' Bob]

It's just the age of Zero Tolerance. With so many Junior Police Cadets on the job, order vill certainly be restored.

Have fun (but don't y'all get caught now).

Funny thing about zero tolerance: we think it's okay if we get to say what is and isn't to be tolerated.

[LakeStevensBA]

We had a problem with a group of people at the Lake Stevens course with their "tradition". They were pressing bottle caps into the stumps and logs all around the course leaving their mark. Some stumps would have 50 or more bottle caps pressed into it. Since the course has a NO Alcohol rule, this wasn't a real good public relations move.

We found out who was doing it and called them on it. They were nice enough to quit doing it and even cleaned it up.

Unfortunately it looks like this group moved to Arlington where you can now see their efforts at the tee box of hole 4.

[Ol' Bob]

Bottle caps are trash. Just my humble opinion. Don't leave them on the course at Lucky Mud. Just my dictatorial rule. It's good to be king.

Sun's out--back to work.

[erp]

You're right Bob - these are just copper-age petroglyphs left by some Oregonquin wood-dwelling tribe.

They're keeping future generations of archaeologists employed...

[Joshua Olmsted]

Originally Posted by Sam

How about "no having fun if it takes away from other people's enjoyment of the same space" as an ordinance? Doesn't seem that hard, really...

Sam, does this small form of expression on a course really take away from your enjoyment of Hagg Lake, would it stop you from going? What if a hiker came up to you and said, "hey, your frisbees are taking away from my enjoyment of this park!" would you pack it in and go home? after all, you're breaking your own rule.

I'm with Ol' Bob 100% on this one, does everything have to be blown out of scale? should all traditions be viewed as equal, should everything be seen from a no-tolerance, "clearly this will encourage others" viewpoint? Would anyone really view Trozzle as being no different then the individuals who throw beer cans around Milo? Who should be the one to judge? To determine what's right and wrong on the disc golf course.

Just because something "might" lead to something else doesn't mean we should always insinuate that it will.

[Flash]

Originally Posted by Joshua Olmsted

Sam, does this small form of expression on a course really take away from your enjoyment of Hagg Lake, would it stop you from going? What if a hiker came up to you and said, "hey, your frisbees are taking away from my enjoyment of this park!" would you pack it in and go home? after all, you're breaking your own rule.

I'm with Ol' Bob 100% on this one, does everything have to be blown out of scale? should all traditions be viewed as equal, should everything be seen from a no-tolerance, "clearly this will encourage others" viewpoint? Would anyone really view Trozzle as being no different then the individuals who throw beer cans around Milo? Who should be the one to judge? To determine what's right and wrong on the disc golf course.

Just because something "might" lead to something else doesn't mean we should always insinuate that it will.

Traditions or whatever you call them are regulated by the land owner or steward, in this case Washington County Parks. If they have no problem with it then it must be OK. I am 100% sure that Milo McIver State Park does not condone littering of beverage containers in the trees, on the ground or in the river. However I do not know what Washington County Parks feels about copper ornaments on trees nor do you. We all know who makes the call and that is in sentence one!

Bob obviously doesn't like bottle caps on his property and he let you know it in his post. But no one is posting from the land in question so the answer is still somewhere else.

I have no idea why Troy posted this other then to let people know who is doing it or to get people to add to it. What he needs to do is go find out what the level of acceptability is and then follow that. Who cares what a bunch or yahoos on this forum say!!!!

by the way I picked up 47 bottle caps at Whistler's Bend during the 1st round of the GNWO, I got frustrated that I was the only one who cared enough to remove them and stopped after round one. Most people thought they were a nuisance but not enough to remove them.

[snap7times]

Originally Posted by Flash

by the way I picked up 47 bottle caps at Whistler's Bend during the 1st round of the GNWO, I got frustrated that I was the only one who cared enough to remove them and stopped after round one. Most people thought they were a nuisance but not enough to remove them.

That's what I was saying on the other thread... this is a bigger problem than the tradition at HAGG... we need to clean up as we play, i see too many DG'ers step over a peice of garbage than to pick it up...

[Sam]

Josh, you might be using the word tradition a little too loosely here. Some doofus who sticks a penny to a tree followed by another doofus doing the same thing does not a tradition make.

It's litter, plain and simple. And the next time I am out there, I will clean it up if it hasn't been done before that.

[LegoRules]

Originally Posted by snap7times

That's what I was saying on the other thread... this is a bigger problem than the tradition at HAGG... we need to clean up as we play, i see too many DG'ers step over a peice of garbage than to pick it up...

My husband and I carry a garbage bag with us when we play, and on Saturday we picked up over 50 cans and bottles plus one plastic poop baggie at Milo durring our round. Some of us do care, and try to help out when we can. I am with Nate though, and wish more cared as much.

Cindy