new tradition

[Ol' Bob]

Have you ever noticed what discs can do to tree bark? Some trees can take disc hits and some are totally disc intolerant, losing a piece of their bark for every hit (cascaras and vine maples, for example). But here's the thing, not every tree gets hit and hurt. Some do, though, and that's a trade off. Protection can be put up, but what would be approved? Is this a tempest in a teapot?

[ChUcK]

Originally Posted by mine all mine

What about the well known shoe tree that used to proudly stand at Morley Field in San Diego. I see no harm...

That tree collapsed under the weight of so many shoes. Bad example.

[Jet]

Cool Idea Trozzle!

If you are familiar with the culture at Hagg then you know a sign would be cut down and used as kindling for a fire. -That is what happened to some benches. You think Milo has a redneck community, at Hagg people keep axes and machetes in their trucks. (You never know when you might need to start a fire or clear a path.)

Technically how is putting in a basket, a tee box, signage, and wearing a path "leaving nature as you found it".

[Scott]

Another vote for leaving the course exactly how you found it.

I don't buy any of the justifications, either. "It's OK because the course is out of the way." No, it's not. Still vandalism.

"The parks dept is OK with whatever you we doing out there." Really? Who did you ask? Were they aware of this specific act? Did you speak with a naturalist or arborist, or did you speak to the person taking money at the front gate?

"It's not that bad." I agree, but it's no reason to do it. What may be no big deal to one person may be an eysore to the next. You might as well error on the side of caution and leave nature the way it was intended.

A little vandalism is still a lot worse than no vandalism at all.

[ChUcK]

Originally Posted by Jet

Technically how is putting in a basket, a tee box, signage, and wearing a path "leaving nature as you found it".

It's a controlled coexistence between man and nature. Littering is not.

Trozzle, I think that the pennies aren't necessarily a bad thing, but we all have different sliding scales of acceptability for that type of thing. The pennies are a beacon to other people who see it as a go-ahead for their own "leave my mark" project, which may or may not be acceptable to you. I can imagine a host of situations that seem innocent to the doer, but pisses everybody else off.

Leaving your initials on a penny stuck to the tree? It's on the same level as the guy who spraypaints his gang's name on the freeway signs. The only difference is in the severity.

[bvdisc]

Originally Posted by Jet

Cool Idea Trozzle!

If you are familiar with the culture at Hagg then you know a sign would be cut down and used as kindling for a fire. -That is what happened to some benches. You think Milo has a redneck community, at Hagg people keep axes and machetes in their trucks. (You never know when you might need to start a fire or clear a path.)

Technically how is putting in a basket, a tee box, signage, and wearing a path "leaving nature as you found it".

Yeah, playing disc golf is not a 0% impact sport. Having said that, I try my best not to step on plants, break limbs, leave trash etc. Just because we have some impact doesn't give us cart blanche to have more impact.

Spray painting a tree wouldn't hurt it either but I would consider it vandalism and uncool.

[JMan]

Is a lost disc littering?
As to the penny, naw, not a lot of impact agreed, except that others might deem your tradition the go ahead to start their own, like signing baskets.

[Ol' Bob]

My post in Is This Littering?:


Tee pads and baskets:littering?

Humanity itself: littering?

I maintain a course, and cigarette butts and candy wrappers are littering. I get to say, here. Give your brothers and sisters as much slack as you would yourself. No one I know walks without bending a blade of grass. I don't see the pennies, placed orderly on that tree, as an act of unconsciousness or disrespect. What it comes down to is personal taste, and the ability to inflict ours on others. At what great or petty precipice do we decide to regulate our contemporaries' art and expression, which is of course, at the sure cost of our own?

__________________________

[Ol' Bob]

Originally Posted by Trozzle!!!

Us crazy Hagg people started a new tradition out there. we started a penny tree on hole 9's tee pad. you will see it when you go out there. If you wish to contribute, go ahead and do so. take a penny, carve your initials onto your first one, and everytime you go out there, add another one below it. we just melt tree sap onto it to stick it to the tree.

Just looking at this again. The quality of this act sets it apart from littering and vandalism. Firstly, the pennies have the property of value. However trivial one might think of it, at least we can all afford one. Secondly, the display is unobtrusive. Thirdly, tree sap is the glue, and how could that be injurious?

All in all, I see this as respectful expression with little to call up disparagement beyond a religious sort of intolerance, based on fear of what could be. We should be willing to use our intelligence to control what needs controlling and accept this use of the commons as something less than the thefts that go on every day and are unabated under the powers that be.

[Joshua Olmsted]

This is a good point, how might we interpret what is tasteful art and what is harmful littering, is it really fair to judge all marks on the course as in the same vain. How about the dream catcher on Pier hole 15, it's certainly not a natural part of the landscape, it could easily be called littering by some of the definitions posted here, yet most people enjoy it because it is a) cool looking (or artful to use another word) and b) unobtrusive. And I don't think anyone would say it might inspire or encourage other tree hanging exploits like the beer chandeliers. I think that scale and intent matter in judging something like this, that's why a comparison to spray painting initials on a tree is completely unfair.

[Jim J]

Originally Posted by Ol' Bob

Copper is very beneficial to many plants.

How about zinc? Since 1982 pennies are made of zinc coated with a only thin layer of copper.

That being said, the question is when does littering become art? At Dexter people have been folding bottle caps around a barbed wire fence behind the tee of 7. When it was only a few caps it looked like litter. Now the colorful caps cover enough of the fence to make it look like a form of folk art.

Pennies on the tree, bottle caps on the fence, it seems like an essential human need to tell others that, like Kilroy, we were here.

[Carie CPink]

Why is it that golfers are compelled to let others know that they played there and the number of times they played?

If we all left some sort of mark indicating the the number of times we played a specific course most of us would...well, hopefully you get the picture.

Again, what is the purpose of this 'tradition'?

[gwillim]

Originally Posted by ChUcK

That tree collapsed under the weight of so many shoes. Bad example.

LOL, that's a pretty good comeback. The only problem is that the tree had been dead for many, many years. They were even holding it up with some 4x4s to brace it up. I don't know if it died due to the shoes or whatnot, but saying that the tree "collapsed under the weight" is not exactly accurate.

Still a smooth comeback, for sure!

[D-Walk]

[Ol' Bob]

What if everyone tossed a rock into the Grand Canyon?

Tempests in teapots.

[Sam]

One word comes to mind:

Eyesore.

[Ol' Bob]

So many good arguments for the "No Having Fun Ordinance."

It looks like it would have been best if the red pennied sap stickers had never been spotted in the wild. They could quite possibly go extinct in our time.

[Sam]

How about "no having fun if it takes away from other people's enjoyment of the same space" as an ordinance? Doesn't seem that hard, really...

[Ol' Bob]

Trozzle fricked up by posting this. He should have gone quietly on, for what all this has been worth. That something so innocuous could stir so much sh*t is amazing. Religious fervor all about.

[Sam]

Agreed. It was dumb to post it. Now it will be easier to clean up the mess that most see this as.

Oh... and you seem pretty zealous in wishing to grant the Hagg folks the right to deface a tree, Bob. What's that all about?