PDGA's on the ball!

[gwillim]

Originally Posted by Scott

At the risk of sounding naive, does this really go on during rounds in the pro divisions of PDGA tournaments?

Yes.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by LJ Jubner

And there is no smoke in Oregon with it's medical laws and such. That would be a good test someone with a MMC gets tossed from a tourney in a state that supports said cards. Ther goes the "against the law" agrument at least till it gets to court.


Anyway this thread is about Officals and how they best can effect change in DG. I say pick your battles Falling putts, In the neighborhood of there mini and such but don't ask me to enforce the law. If you feel that strongly about it. There are peolpe who are paid to do just that enforce the law.

Hate to break it to ya, but it's not just a law - it's a PDGA rule. And as a rule, it does fall under the jurisdiction of the rules officials.

And I would argue that smoking pot has a more detrimental effect on the game than a falling putt.

[TYVEK]

Originally Posted by LJ Jubner

Anyway this thread is about Officals and how they best can effect change in DG. I say pick your battles Falling putts, In the neighborhood of there mini and such but don't ask me to enforce the law. If you feel that strongly about it. There are peolpe who are paid to do just that enforce the law.

as a TD arent you supposed to be enforcing PDGA rules? isnt it a rule that there is no drugs or alchohol usage allowed during a PDGA tournament play? if that is the case i would EXPECT you to enforce these RULES. not talking about the law, just rules of the game.

[Flash]

The problem is not that the rules do not cover the situation, the problem is getting people to enforce rules they may not agree with.

I don't know Jub personally but I am guessing by his remark that he might partake or have in the past used illegal drugs. To him it may not feel like something that should be illegal or against the rules. Some people feel that foot faulting is not a big deal and it should not be enforced unless the individual made the shot then you crucify him or her. Plain and simple a rule is a rule and if you are going to play by the rules, you need to enforce them in all conditions, even if you believe in it or not.

If someone foot faults call them on it even if they miss the putt and make the second one, regardless of whether or not it hurts you or helps you. The rules are not there for you to decide when and where to apply them, they are there to keep us all on the same page. If someone was violating the rules technically once it came to their attention they would assign the penalty themselves, isn't that the whole idea behind a self governed sport

If you feel strongly about a rule and want to see it changed then take action use your educated mind and write a letter to the PDGA Board and Rules committee requesting a change. This is how the 2 meter rule came to pass!!!!!!

[gwillim]

Originally Posted by Flash

If you feel strongly about a rule and want to see it changed then take action use your educated mind and write a letter to the PDGA Board and Rules committee requesting a change. This is how the 2 meter rule came to pass!!!!!!

Somebody ought to start a movement to get the falling putt rule changed so that if you fault on your putt but miss the putt, you aren't allowed to re-putt. But if you make it, you must re-putt.

[LJ Jubner]

Originally Posted by Flash

The problem is not that the rules do not cover the situation, the problem is getting people to enforce rules they may not agree with.

I don't know Jub personally but I am guessing by his remark that he might partake or have in the past used illegal drugs. To him it may not feel like something that should be illegal or against the rules. Some people feel that foot faulting is not a big deal and it should not be enforced unless the individual made the shot then you crucify him or her. Plain and simple a rule is a rule and if you are going to play by the rules, you need to enforce them in all conditions, even if you believe in it or not.

If someone foot faults call them on it even if they miss the putt and make the second one, regardless of whether or not it hurts you or helps you. The rules are not there for you to decide when and where to apply them, they are there to keep us all on the same page. If someone was violating the rules technically once it came to their attention they would assign the penalty themselves, isn't that the whole idea behind a self governed sport

If you feel strongly about a rule and want to see it changed then take action use your educated mind and write a letter to the PDGA Board and Rules committee requesting a change. This is how the 2 meter rule came to pass!!!!!!

Flash you made some good points about the rules all of the time. When you call a rules violation it's for everyone who is playing not to be just a

But if you look at the rules as a whole the no drugs/alcohol rule is the only one that does not have anything to do with the game itself. It does have an effect but no direct correlation. It's not an advantage and at it's worst a personal physical stamina issue. I like the two meter rule reference it's the perfect example of "a pick and choose" rule. sometimes Yes sometimes No. Even round to round. My point is the pdga is asking us to be policeman in a very close knit community. Why be so harsh. Use the time wasting rules and let the offender decide if it's worth it or not. You know not being ready to play when it's your turn, not responding to a request for your score. Use the rules already on the books.

[TYVEK]

the PDGA has to include the drugs and alchohol rule, because they are pushing for this sport to be in the mainstream and a legitiment profesional sport. NO other profesional sport allows drinking and drug use during the sport, and with most sports drug use at all is a big no no.

if we want to put disc golf on TV and help it be a more mainstream sport, then we need to do our part to help encourage a clean image of the sport.
i am pretty much just talking about tournaments here, because that is what is going to catch the eyes of the "outsiders" that we want to be included.

if a person takes part in drinking and "smoking" at home, thats their decision, but if they are going to direct a tournament then they need to leave it at home and be a Tournament Director and enforce ALL of the PDGA rules, whether they agree with them or not.


as far as it not effecting the game at all, i disagree. if you have a group of people that have some "smokers" and some non smokers, it will effect the way the non smokers play, because they dont want to be around that stuff. they have to smell it or wait for the other guys to come out of the woods, then that throws there mental game off even by just a little.

by taking it away, it evens up the playing field. this is my opinion.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by LJ Jubner

Flash you made some good points about the rules all of the time. When you call a rules violation it's for everyone who is playing not to be just a

But if you look at the rules as a whole the no drugs/alcohol rule is the only one that does not have anything to do with the game itself. It does have an effect but no direct correlation. It's not an advantage and at it's worst a personal physical stamina issue. I like the two meter rule reference it's the perfect example of "a pick and choose" rule. sometimes Yes sometimes No. Even round to round. My point is the pdga is asking us to be policeman in a very close knit community. Why be so harsh. Use the time wasting rules and let the offender decide if it's worth it or not. You know not being ready to play when it's your turn, not responding to a request for your score. Use the rules already on the books.

Just because you don't agree with the rule doesn't mean it shouldn't be followed. It is a TD's responisbility to make sure ALL rules are followed, not just the ones that he/she believes in.

[LJ Jubner]

Originally Posted by TYVEK

the PDGA has to include the drugs and alchohol rule, because they are pushing for this sport to be in the mainstream and a legitiment profesional sport. NO other profesional sport allows drinking and drug use during the sport, and with most sports drug use at all is a big no no.


Until just a few years ago almost all the major sports allowed recreational drug use through their collective bargining agreements. Funny I don't remember anything that looked like they asked or cared about my imput on the subject


if we want to put disc golf on TV and help it be a more mainstream sport, then we need to do our part to help encourage a clean image of the sport.
i am pretty much just talking about tournaments here, because that is what is going to catch the eyes of the "outsiders" that we want to be included.


Funny this seems I can't resist a pipe dream. I know about CBS and some Oklahoma tycoon who wants to publicze DG but still.

if a person takes part in drinking and "smoking" at home, thats their decision, but if they are going to direct a tournament then they need to leave it at home and be a Tournament Director and enforce ALL of the PDGA rules, whether they agree with them or not.

Again As aTD I was not consulted about this unilaterial decision

as far as it not effecting the game at all, i disagree. if you have a group of people that have some "smokers" and some non smokers, it will effect the way the non smokers play, because they dont want to be around that stuff. they have to smell it or wait for the other guys to come out of the woods, then that throws there mental game off even by just a little.

I do agree herethats why i offerd a reasonable solution.

by taking it away, it evens up the playing field. this is my opinion.

I respect you opinion and they way it was presented

["Over the Hill" Bob]

Originally Posted by LJ Jubner

Anyway this thread is about Officals and how they best can effect change in DG. I say pick your battles Falling putts, In the neighborhood of there mini and such but don't ask me to enforce the law. If you feel that strongly about it. There are peolpe who are paid to do just that enforce the law.

Uhhhhhhhh.........actually the thread is, or was, about how responsive the PDGA has been in handling my efforts to become certified as an Official.

Bob

[Adam Schneider]

Originally Posted by snap7times

As for the Pros, most of them stick to smoking legal cigarettes during rounds.

So it's kosher, according to PDGA rules, to smoke tobacco during rounds? I'll just add that to the list of reasons I don't play in tournaments...

[all2common]

It could be flagged as a courtesy violation. Warning, then stroke.

[Tim]

I take issue with the claim that this happens so much more in Washington than in Oregon. I'm not going to deny that it happens here, but it's hardly an "every round" kind of thing, at least in the rounds I've played. I saw it a lot more when I played in Int., but since I moved up to Adv., I rarely see it at all. And the one big tourney I played in OR, people were openly sparking up right at tourney central!

[Magilla]

Originally Posted by LJ Jubner

And there is no smoke in Oregon with it's medical laws and such. That would be a good test someone with a MMC gets tossed from a tourney in a state that supports said cards. Ther goes the "against the law" agrument at least till it gets to court.

Oh...NO...regardless of an individuals "status".
It is still ILLEGAL to consume in a "Drug Free Zone" which includes ALL Schools & Parks. So anyone who attempted to use that excuse would just be shot down in the end.

[Sausage Fingers]

Originally Posted by all2common

It could be flagged as a courtesy violation. Warning, then stroke.

This is only if the smoke bothers you. They can smoke cigs if they make sure to stand downwind of anyone who requests that they do so. If they still continue to bother you with their smoking, then the warnings/strokes occur.

Originally Posted by Tim

And the one big tourney I played in OR, people were openly sparking up right at tourney central!

According to the competition manual, you are only prohibited from these activities from the 2-minute warning to when the scorecard is turned in. Were you offended by people drinking liquor at tourney central between rounds too or just the 'evil weed'?

[Sausage Fingers]

Originally Posted by Magilla

"Drug Free Zone" which includes ALL Schools & Parks.

I knew about the schools but didn't know that parks were included in that law. Is that just State Parks? County Parks? Amusement Parks? Can you show me where that can be found?

Do the harsher penalties for "within 500 yards of a school" ALSO include "within 500 yards of a parks"?

[snap7times]

Originally Posted by Adam Schneider

So it's kosher, according to PDGA rules, to smoke tobacco during rounds? I'll just add that to the list of reasons I don't play in tournaments...

somebody's missing out.... the list of pros for playing in a tournament, especially larger ones far out number these smaller con lists... I hope you going to BSF as a fan at least...

[Tim]

Originally Posted by Sausage Fingers

According to the competition manual, you are only prohibited from these activities from the 2-minute warning to when the scorecard is turned in. Were you offended by people drinking liquor at tourney central between rounds too or just the 'evil weed'?

Heh, I never said it offended me. But isn't the whole rationale of the rule to present a professional, clean image to the world at large? Seems to me, a crowd of 100+ people standing around with bursts of fragrant smoke erupting here and there pretty much trumps the couple of groups that may be partaking during the round (which, as you might guess, was also happening). I'm not trying to come off as preachy here or anything, I'm just saying, I don't think it's right to imply that Washington is more guilty than Oregon when it comes to The Rule.

[snap7times]

Point is, we need to stop worrying about social status related to being the tattle tale on these rule violations and just do our part and rat on the rule violating SOB's... I used to be a little concerned about what people would think if I ratted someone out but from now on I will just be upfront about it and if someone cries like a baby, i know i got plenty of fellow dg'ers who will back me up... I would expect the same for everyone else... I want to see the game grow, i want to see my kid*s* be able to play this game their entire lives, but it wont happen as long as we are sterotyped and don't help each other step up our image...

[Adam Schneider]

Originally Posted by snap7times

the list of pros for playing in a tournament, especially larger ones far out number these smaller con lists...

For you. Not for me.