2013 WA State series Updated

[LJ Jubner]

I can't believe it. The series starts in one month with the traditional opener Windy River Open at Columbia River Park. The newly re-formed old Tri Cities club has been hard at work showing why it's been the kick off of the NW DG season for nearly 15 years. Hooray!!!

We are finalizing a 16 event series for 2013. Finals: City Cup in Sept
We have 3 first time venues this year.
Spring Classic 5/19 is returning as the first West side qualifier
Yakima is returning as the last East side qualifier
Some events have changed weekends Some have tweaked their formats.


We have ordered our TFR's Glo KC Pro Roc $17, M/F Destroyer, Gator,Tern $20
$300 shopping cart: contents and dispersion TBD


Get the jump on this years dates.
Keep an eye on your email if you played any series event last year. We are working on a mailing releasing the finalized series dates, deals and promotions putting you ahead of the rest.

One thing is for sure it won't be a joke!

[kylesmart]

I really hope it's not a joke like last year. I swear everyone got so screwed last year and most are oblivious to it. Also is it going to be the state series or the east side series with a couple in Seattle.

[ski2man]

Originally Posted by kylesmart

I really hope it's not a joke like last year. I swear everyone got so screwed last year and most are oblivious to it. Also is it going to be the state series or the east side series with a couple in Seattle.

+1

I would love to know the population comparison for east vs. west here....

[CMC206]

How do you feel you got screwed? How was it a joke?

[kylesmart]

The money collected and the scrip dispersed does not add up. Nor do I think it will this year. Last years players unknowingly had 1000 taken out so that this year had a budget of 1000 to start rather than 0. I'm sorry but I have ran a tourney knowing that ill get x dollars back so I forked out 800 plus from my own pocket to make sure all players got stuff back. The pot should 0 out. I also participated two years straight 1 in intermediate 2011 and advanced 2012. I got third in intermediate and got 230 in script. 1st got like 300 in script and a full size basket. I got 1st in advanced last year and got 120 in script. Did I mention there was less money in the total pot in 2011 because there was only 6 events where as 2012 there was 11. That sir is why I feel I personally got screwed over. And also everyone else who seems to be oblivious to the dibbachory that has become the wss or the eastern Washington state series.

[ski2man]

Originally Posted by CMC206

How do you feel you got screwed? How was it a joke?

I do not have a screwed over story myself nor do I feel it was a joke... however I did find it a bummer I couldn't get to the final and this year I won't be able to either as it is further east. I can't get to that many east events, last year all I could make out east was Sushi. That being said I'm sure it is hard for east to come west, understandable. Wish there could be a east championship and west championship to count towards it you know...but that is dumb I know. Wish more events out west counted towards it is all.
So, I was not screwed over...just bummed I could not try and place because the final was in tricities at a horrible time for me to get away. I was sitting ok-ish but couldn't do anything about it last year. Now this year the finals will be even further away in spokane. Anywho.....I digress.

I appreciate all the hard work that goes into the WSS, I know it's very difficult to coordinate events and TD's across a whole state. Thank you!

[olydiscgolf]

Originally Posted by kylesmart

The money collected and the scrip dispersed does not add up. Nor do I think it will this year. Last years players unknowingly had 1000 taken out so that this year had a budget of 1000 to start rather than 0. I'm sorry but I have ran a tourney knowing that ill get x dollars back so I forked out 800 plus from my own pocket to make sure all players got stuff back. The pot should 0 out. I also participated two years straight 1 in intermediate 2011 and advanced 2012. I got third in intermediate and got 230 in script. 1st got like 300 in script and a full size basket. I got 1st in advanced last year and got 120 in script. Did I mention there was less money in the total pot in 2011 because there was only 6 events where as 2012 there was 11. That sir is why I feel I personally got screwed over. And also everyone else who seems to be oblivious to the dibbachory that has become the wss or the eastern Washington state series.

Congrats to the WSS staff for setting aside a start up fund, and having the forethought and vision of making the series self sustainable and less of a burden on the players. Its making the tough decisions that make a good manager. And thank you Kyle for your donation towards the future.

[Mr. Anderson]

Originally Posted by kylesmart

The money collected and the scrip dispersed does not add up. Nor do I think it will this year. Last years players unknowingly had 1000 taken out so that this year had a budget of 1000 to start rather than 0. I'm sorry but I have ran a tourney knowing that ill get x dollars back so I forked out 800 plus from my own pocket to make sure all players got stuff back. The pot should 0 out. I also participated two years straight 1 in intermediate 2011 and advanced 2012. I got third in intermediate and got 230 in script. 1st got like 300 in script and a full size basket. I got 1st in advanced last year and got 120 in script. Did I mention there was less money in the total pot in 2011 because there was only 6 events where as 2012 there was 11. That sir is why I feel I personally got screwed over. And also everyone else who seems to be oblivious to the dibbachory that has become the wss or the eastern Washington state series.

Hey Kyle. The numbers from last year added up, I painfully reviewed them myself, and they were posted publicly. Would you like to see them?

It was stated from the beginning of planning the 2012 WSS that X amount of dollars was to be saved to help promote the WSS and to get a jump start on purchasing CFRs. This was agreed upon by the majority of the people who were participating in the planning. I believe 2013 has ~$1000 to utilize this year compared to ~$360 held over from 2011.

Two years ago there were more sponsors and fundraising for the WSS. This is the main reason why the pay out was larger in previous years.

I do not know why you expect the organizers of the WSS to personally donate their money to the WSS so that participants can get prizes of higher value.

Last year you personally put ~$12-$24 into the prize pool and received ~$120 in retail scrip. Not to bad, but not as good as the previous years.

[LJ Jubner]

This is not a perfect world nor a perfect series. There are 17 people who give freely of their time towards trying to make it one. Kyle is one of them. Unfortunately, his group participation has been inconsistent at best. He has been given almost 15 months to participate but has chosen to air his gripes here. So be it.

Lets compare 2011 to 2012

2011
Events 6 + final $3 per player
650 total participants
4-6 to qualify, mandatory final * generated $150 in player fees
$3000 generated <$350> nest egg for 2012
$2650 for 17 qualifiers paid out 100%

2012
Events 11 + final $3 per player
1050 total participants
4-11 to qualify, mandatory final *generated $450 in player fees
$3700 generated <$950> nest egg for 2013
115 qualifiers $2750 57 attended finals all but 3 where paid 95%

* these fees where generated and paid after the final numbers had been crunched

The $950 net egg has allowed us to actually hire an artist and purchase the TFR's/$300 "Gold" shopping cart I mentioned before. There is still about $200 left after the invoice from Innova.

Schedule: A couple of things go into setting it up.
Travel: was our first priority. hence more regional qualifiers.
Finals: In the beginning the finals were always at Lakewood the third weekend in Sept . Travel was not a consideration. Several years ago It was decided that ..." in an effort to be fair to all DG throughout the state the finals should rotate between the 4 major regions of the state" Sea-Tac-Kitsap, Spokane, Wentachee and Tri Cities-Walla Walla.

(2010 Spokane, 2011 Kitsap, 2012 Tri Cities, 2013 Spokane, 2014 will be the 40th anniversary of the State championships/Newland so it being the final is a no brain er in my mind.)

2013
Our goal is $3600 total ~$2700 purse $900 egg
We are looking into how best to reach these goals. The easiest way is to continue the $3/player. Then the fundraising is easy. It has been suggested (but not yet approved by the group) of the possibility of lowering is not dropping the $3 all together. By doing this we need to have our fundraising be at its maximum.

1. The TFR's can generate between $1800-$2000.
2. The shopping cart can be the priming of series final raffle pump
3. The series required basket toss 10 qualifiers, $100 for 2 day events 5/$50 for one day.
4. Basket toss Insurance

[guitodd]

so there you go kyle. A couple of excelent explainations by a couple of decent men. If you cant take their word, than your just an unreasonable idiot. Apologize now and move on. Your false rants are fun to read, try something real like bigfoot. Discgolfers for the ethical treatment of Yetis and Bigfoots. Im in.

[guitodd]

....I misspoke. I said decent men and realized Gilby was up there. REQOUTE: ...two decent men and Gilby.....

[Cerrgurry]

Next year the finals should be over on the west....if a club steps up

Hoping to see a North Bonny event...hey anyone who has power...make it happen....

Originally Posted by ski2man

I do not have a screwed over story myself nor do I feel it was a joke... however I did find it a bummer I couldn't get to the final and this year I won't be able to either as it is further east. I can't get to that many east events, last year all I could make out east was Sushi. That being said I'm sure it is hard for east to come west, understandable. Wish there could be a east championship and west championship to count towards it you know...but that is dumb I know. Wish more events out west counted towards it is all.
So, I was not screwed over...just bummed I could not try and place because the final was in tricities at a horrible time for me to get away. I was sitting ok-ish but couldn't do anything about it last year. Now this year the finals will be even further away in spokane. Anywho.....I digress.

I appreciate all the hard work that goes into the WSS, I know it's very difficult to coordinate events and TD's across a whole state. Thank you!

[Cerrgurry]

something to note when looking at the numbers is that we offered more divisions then previous years had as well. By no means has the series been perfect but those parties that would like to see things change are always welcome to the planning table.

Originally Posted by LJ Jubner

This is not a perfect world nor a perfect series. There are 17 people who give freely of their time towards trying to make it one. Kyle is one of them. Unfortunately, his group participation has been inconsistent at best. He has been given almost 15 months to participate but has chosen to air his gripes here. So be it.

Lets compare 2011 to 2012

2011
Events 6 + final $3 per player
650 total participants
4-6 to qualify, mandatory final * generated $150 in player fees
$3000 generated <$350> nest egg for 2012
$2650 for 17 qualifiers paid out 100%

2012
Events 11 + final $3 per player
1050 total participants
4-11 to qualify, mandatory final *generated $450 in player fees
$3700 generated <$950> nest egg for 2013
115 qualifiers $2750 57 attended finals all but 3 where paid 95%

* these fees where generated and paid after the final numbers had been crunched

The $950 net egg has allowed us to actually hire an artist and purchase the TFR's/$300 "Gold" shopping cart I mentioned before. There is still about $200 left after the invoice from Innova.

Schedule: A couple of things go into setting it up.
Travel: was our first priority. hence more regional qualifiers.
Finals: In the beginning the finals were always at Lakewood the third weekend in Sept . Travel was not a consideration. Several years ago It was decided that ..." in an effort to be fair to all DG throughout the state the finals should rotate between the 4 major regions of the state" Sea-Tac-Kitsap, Spokane, Wentachee and Tri Cities-Walla Walla.

(2010 Spokane, 2011 Kitsap, 2012 Tri Cities, 2013 Spokane, 2014 will be the 40th anniversary of the State championships/Newland so it being the final is a no brain er in my mind.)

2013
Our goal is $3600 total ~$2700 purse $900 egg
We are looking into how best to reach these goals. The easiest way is to continue the $3/player. Then the fundraising is easy. It has been suggested (but not yet approved by the group) of the possibility of lowering is not dropping the $3 all together. By doing this we need to have our fundraising be at its maximum.

1. The TFR's can generate between $1800-$2000.
2. The shopping cart can be the priming of series final raffle pump
3. The series required basket toss 10 qualifiers, $100 for 2 day events 5/$50 for one day.
4. Basket toss Insurance

[ski2man]

Originally Posted by LJ Jubner

Several years ago It was decided that ..." in an effort to be fair to all DG throughout the state the finals should rotate between the 4 major regions of the state" Sea-Tac-Kitsap, Spokane, Wentachee and Tri Cities-Walla Walla.

(2010 Spokane, 2011 Kitsap, 2012 Tri Cities, 2013 Spokane, 2014 will be the 40th anniversary of the State championships/Newland so it being the final is a no brain er in my mind.)
[/list]

I agree with all reasoning, all makes sense to me...I would just like to point out that 3/4 regions lie east of the Cascades.......and Sea-Tac-Kitsap does not include Steily, Olympia, Shelton area. I agree...I guess someone needs to step up. Ugh. But you know, 2/4 on each side of the natural (in my mind) divide of the state, the Cascades, sure would be nice.

[LJ Jubner]

Originally Posted by ski2man

I agree with all reasoning, all makes sense to me...I would just like to point out that 3/4 regions lie east of the Cascades.......and Sea-Tac-Kitsap does not include Steily, Olympia, Shelton area. I agree...I guess someone needs to step up. Ugh. But you know, 2/4 on each side of the natural (in my mind) divide of the state, the Cascades, sure would be nice.

When I said Sea -Tac I meant Seattle and Tacoma Shelton/Oly is certainly also in that group

[ski2man]

Originally Posted by LJ Jubner

When I said Sea -Tac I meant Seattle and Tacoma Shelton/Oly is certainly also in that group

ah i see.

[kylesmart]

See you say 2750 went out but besides pro getting cash you have scrip out at a 1-1 rate but if the am pot is 1500 let's say them you should either give out 3000 in scrip and mark the discs up double or give out 1500 and give discs at cost. Also the discs we had to chose from granted were new discs they were old tourney stamps sorry if I as a player don't want to throw discs from a Spokane tourney from 2009 that i never went to. Also they were marked up a couple more than most clubs. Hey I'm not an idiot or unreasonable. I am however a disc golfer who sees a company the wss in 2011 have fewer tournaments and pay out more than 2012. I'm super happy that there was more events don't get me wrong Jub did a lot to get that happening but it's still the players that got screwed. I agree mr Anderson it is painfull to look at the numbers also I do agree that the state series did a horrible job at getting sponsors. I believe maybe rideout and the crew set the bar too high for Jub and the wss but isn't it his job to be better than the previous year.

[LJ Jubner]

Kyle, all of your points were discussed and decided upon in the group. It's too bad you took your responsibility there so lightly.

Originally Posted by kylesmart

See you say 2750 went out but besides pro getting cash you have scrip out at a 1-1 rate but if the am pot is 1500 let's say them you should either give out 3000 in scrip and mark the discs up double or give out 1500 and give discs at cost.

This make absolutely no sense. It does seem Kyle you have not looked as closely at the numbers because if you had you would know the exact numbers. You do raise an interesting point, by doubling the value of the total purse you make the series look inflated. The operative term there is look not actually doubled but it sure looks like it on paper. If we did the opposite and valued the prizes at cost it would make the series look smaller on paper.
Just so you know Bob bid $1750 and paid out a little more then $2000 so that's $250 back into the series

Series store
Now, if the series had it's own store we would have more room to work. But it has two big drawbacks
It only comes out once a year
the logistics of said inventory, Storage,transportation and transparency

Originally Posted by kylesmart

Also the discs we had to chose from granted were new discs they were old tourney stamps sorry if I as a player don't want to throw discs from a Spokane tourney from 2009 that i never went to. Also they were marked up a couple more than most clubs.

So what your saying is the art is more important. Correct me if I am wrong but don't we throw discs not art?

Originally Posted by kylesmart

Hey I'm not an idiot or unreasonable. I am however a disc golfer who sees a company the wss in 2011 have fewer tournaments and pay out more than 2012.

The difference between the two years is the number of qualifiers and attendees not how many events or the funds raised. What you are really saying is the players who finished 6-12 should not get anything for their efforts it should have all gone to you!

Originally Posted by kylesmart

I'm super happy that there was more events don't get me wrong Jub did a lot to get that happening but it's still the players that got screwed.

Kyle did you know that the word "but" hates the previous sentence

Originally Posted by kylesmart

I agree mr Anderson it is painful to look at the numbers

Nice try, I believe John meant he painstakingly made sure the numbers added up no matter what the results Transparency is more important.

Originally Posted by kylesmart

I do agree that the state series did a horrible job at getting sponsors. I believe maybe rideout and the crew set the bar too high for Jub

In the beginning I was not sure if we would even have a series but with the help of Bob, Mark, Kris and Kenny we were able to offer a viable set of events
Mike was more of a one man show so it's easier to get things done.

Sponsorship Our goal was to not compete with the events for funding like club/event raffles
We did not force them into a series basket toss qualifier.
We did not force them into buying series CFR's
If we had forced these Paving the Way would not have donated $800 toward the paving of the lot at Shelton Springs. So Yes the series fundraising was slow at best but it was a huge benefit to the clubs and their events and projects

Originally Posted by kylesmart

and the wss but isn't it his job to be better than the previous year.

It is our goal to try and make the series better. Should I list all the things we did get accomplished?
12 events, 1000 participants, 115 qualifiers and 57 attendees 54 of which got to chose their payout.
How about the guidelines that were designed with the protection of the players and consistency between events.
How about the biding process for all series purchase's not the cronyism of old.

[Mr. Anderson]

Nice try, I believe John meant he painstakingly made sure the numbers added up no matter what the results Transparency is more important.



This ^^^. It took a few phone conversations, emails, and building new spreadsheets from scratch, but the numbers eventually worked out. By the end Jub might have been annoyed with me but I like to see that a(b+c) = ab + ac.

I have a hard time listening to such harsh criticism of the 2012 WSS. Every issue that Kyle is complaining about was discussed and voted on by a group of volunteers before the season even started. Also the same explanation was given to Kyle a few of months ago through less public channels.

Do I 100% agree with everything that was decided upon by the WSS group? ...nope. Am I willing to take on the responsibility that Jub has volunteered for? ....nope. I am willing to give constructive criticism to those that listen and will not take offense if they decide not to take my advice... yes. I appreciate the effort that Jub has given to the WSS.

The WSS will always be evolving into something different and probably will never make everyone 100% happy. I'm excited for the 2013 season and look forward to seeing how the WSS will turn out.

[EnigmaSquad]

Originally Posted by Mr. Anderson

Nice try, I believe John meant he painstakingly made sure the numbers added up no matter what the results Transparency is more important.



This ^^^. It took a few phone conversations, emails, and building new spreadsheets from scratch, but the numbers eventually worked out. By the end Jub might have been annoyed with me but I like to see that a(b+c) = ab + ac.

I have a hard time listening to such harsh criticism of the 2012 WSS. Every issue that Kyle is complaining about was discussed and voted on by a group of volunteers before the season even started. Also the same explanation was given to Kyle a few of months ago through less public channels.

Do I 100% agree with everything that was decided upon by the WSS group? ...nope. Am I willing to take on the responsibility that Jub has volunteered for? ....nope. I am willing to give constructive criticism to those that listen and will not take offense if they decide not to take my advice... yes. I appreciate the effort that Jub has given to the WSS.

The WSS will always be evolving into something different and probably will never make everyone 100% happy. I'm excited for the 2013 season and look forward to seeing how the WSS will turn out.

Well said.

Moving on...