2013 WA State series Updated

[kylesmart]

I agree with you John I was told just like Jub had to take every sentence out and dissect everything into a bash of me. Hey and this is a forum where you get to express your thoughts and ideas willingly and freely and hopefully find common ground. I may be somewhat alone in my thoughts and ideas but again I may have been the only person besides my roommate Matt to play in most events the past two years for the WSS and I will not be attempting to play that circuit which Matt won't either. Again when you break it down from this one players perspective 3rd in 2011 got a trophy 230 in scrip an ironman shirt. Also first in biggest divisions got a basket. 1st in 2012 got no trophy 120 in scrip a 3 inch patch and no basket. That is pure and simple what me as a player playing in the wss sees. But I just happen to see behind the curtain so I'm the asshole. No I am a guy who drove his ass around this state and just want a little more recognition than a patch or a pencil. I wear my 2011 ironman shirt with pride knowing that there were only 10 or so of us that made it to all 6 events. I as a player have known and I understand everything your all saying but it's time for you all to see it from my eyes in the open not in backroom conversations. As a player I'm disappointed in the series. As a person who got to be inside the series I am disappointed in myself and Jub ad bob. Jub your an arrogant prick who probably took the time to maticulosly go through every sentence just like you will with this one. And bob well the only thing you did was not have new plastic to offer me which I do like to throw art but art which I have been or played in.

[EnigmaSquad]

Originally Posted by kylesmart

But I just happen to see behind the curtain so I'm the asshole. No I am a guy who drove his ass around this state and just want a little more recognition than a patch or a pencil. I wear my 2011 ironman shirt with pride knowing that there were only 10 or so of us that made it to all 6 events. I as a player have known and I understand everything your all saying but it's time for you all to see it from my eyes in the open not in backroom conversations.

Kyle,
All of us can see behind the curtain...not all of us have to respond the way you have.

What more recognition do you want? Isn't that what your ironman shirt is for? Did you get a trophy? If you were to get twice as much scrip would you feel more "recognized"?

It sounds like the payout structure was explained up front, do you feel that it wasn't? If so, then shame on them for pulling a bait and switch. But either way, the most effective thing you can do NOW is shop with your feet. Others will shop with theirs... If the series becomes a success this year, then you may have to face the reality you are actually in the minority. If it flops, you can feel vindicated that everyone else saw it the same way as you...
I am sure the WSS coordinators have and will continue to take CONSTRUCTIVE criticism on the best way to run the series. At this point I think they are confident to move forward and believe their transparency so far will net them plenty of faithful players to the 2013 series.

[LJ Jubner]

This will be an interesting reply. 12 years ago I was you Kyle, tilting at wind mills. So it seems fitting I am getting back some of what I dished out. There is a word that means that but I can't think of it right now.
Anyway over those 12 years I have paid attention to what worked and what didn't. Tried a lot of things on my own. The INWS was great staring point to build from and the groups attention to detail makes us stronger. Yes I mean you John.

[EnigmaSquad]

Kyle, as an outsider to this conversation (who has admittedly inserted himself into) here is my perspective.

These things you have said are probably helpful to the conversation. Maybe they are true, maybe they are not everyone is entitled to their opinion.
*The money collected and the scrip dispersed does not add up.
*I do agree that the state series did a horrible job at getting sponsors
*this is a forum where you get to express your thoughts and ideas willingly and freely and hopefully find common ground
*As a player I'm disappointed in the series

Thanks for adding these comments to the conversation. It appears the numbers posted in this thread are a direct result of your concerns.

These comments below however are not helpful, there might be some truth buried within them but the method is in poor taste.
*I really hope it's not a joke like last year
*everyone got so screwed last year
*oblivious to the dibbachory that has become the wss
*But I just happen to see behind the curtain so I'm the asshole
*Jub your an arrogant prick
*the only thing you did was not have new plastic to offer me

[Rideout]

.

Kyle, I understand some of your frustrations, but often with progress comes change. In my opinion, you, as a player that spent both the time and money to travel to so many series events, have earned the right to voice your opinion. You have sounded off loud and clear (more than once), and many players who were unaware of these details are now in-the-know. Please allow the series to move on and either choose to be an active member of the series organizers or be a peaceful bystander. There were many players that did not like the actions I took as series coordinator (2010 & 2011), but if they all voiced their feelings & opinions in the same manner you currently are – you personally may have chosen differently and not given the series a chance, due to the opinions of others, and you wouldn’t have the good experience you refer back to in 2011 (BTW – thanks for liking what I helped organize).


Kyle, I’m not sure about these baskets you’re talking about as 2011 payout. I remember the basket for the basket toss – donated by Mandos and won by me (aaah yeah!), but I don’t think any others were given away.


I think it’s fantastic to see the series continue to grow. I have always been a fan of the series banking enough capital to be completely self-reliant. I’m stoked to see so many players happy to both - have a series they compete in & have a rebuilt confidence in their series’ longevity (which was greatly shaken in early 2009).


Through all its ups & downs-

Long Live the Washington State Series!!!!



Mike Rideout - Peaceful Bystander


.

[Danni]

Originally Posted by Rideout

.

Kyle, I’m not sure about these baskets you’re talking about as 2011 payout. I remember the basket for the basket toss – donated by Mandos and won by me (aaah yeah!), but I don’t think any others were given away.
.

I don't know if this will help, but a guy from my club won 1st place (Intermediate) at the series finals at 4 mounds - Mo - and he WAS awarded a basket. He DIDN'T qualify for the WSS, but that was the TOURNAMENT prize. I think that was 2010, but it could have been 2011... a lot of the years have started to blend together, sorry. Hopefully the fact that I'm saying it was at 4 Mounds will help those of you with better memories to know which finals that was.

[Yoduh]

Originally Posted by kylesmart

I agree with you John I was told just like Jub had to take every sentence out and dissect everything into a bash of me. Hey and this is a forum where you get to express your thoughts and ideas willingly and freely and hopefully find common ground. I may be somewhat alone in my thoughts and ideas but again I may have been the only person besides my roommate Matt to play in most events the past two years for the WSS and I will not be attempting to play that circuit which Matt won't either. Again when you break it down from this one players perspective 3rd in 2011 got a trophy 230 in scrip an ironman shirt. Also first in biggest divisions got a basket. 1st in 2012 got no trophy 120 in scrip a 3 inch patch and no basket. That is pure and simple what me as a player playing in the wss sees. But I just happen to see behind the curtain so I'm the asshole. No I am a guy who drove his ass around this state and just want a little more recognition than a patch or a pencil. I wear my 2011 ironman shirt with pride knowing that there were only 10 or so of us that made it to all 6 events. I as a player have known and I understand everything your all saying but it's time for you all to see it from my eyes in the open not in backroom conversations. As a player I'm disappointed in the series. As a person who got to be inside the series I am disappointed in myself and Jub ad bob. Jub your an arrogant prick who probably took the time to maticulosly go through every sentence just like you will with this one. And bob well the only thing you did was not have new plastic to offer me which I do like to throw art but art which I have been or played in.

Well Said Kyle. Been following this from the beginning and I really see all of your points. The biggest thing to me is that a series payout that is done at a 1:1 ratio, you are retaxing ams that have been taxed all year long in every tournament they've played. They are deserving of having their money's be multiplied, not divided again.. ESPECIALLY with old picked over plastic stashes. Greedy vending needs to stop. Keep waking up the sheep Kyle.
Hopefully last year was a growing year for the series, hence the reason the money had t go where it did. It does make sense that people shouldn't have to float their own money out to run a series, which they actually have to do. So lets give growth a chance and see what happens this year..

[Wobbly Bob]

Originally Posted by Danni

I don't know if this will help, but a guy from my club won 1st place (Intermediate) at the series finals at 4 mounds - Mo - and he WAS awarded a basket. He DIDN'T qualify for the WSS, but that was the TOURNAMENT prize. I think that was 2010, but it could have been 2011... a lot of the years have started to blend together, sorry. Hopefully the fact that I'm saying it was at 4 Mounds will help those of you with better memories to know which finals that was.

Yes I remember that year, it was 2010. I love giving away baskets to the divisions that have more than 16 players. I was supposed to provide the Series payout as well as the Tournament payout that year. However the Series payout was paid out to Ams in the form of cash. This was decided after I had purchased extra discs for the Series payout.

This year the Lilac City Open will be awarding an Innova Sport basket to the winner of the Advanced Men's division and a Sport or Traveler basket to the winner of the Intermediate Men's Division (the basket type will depend on the amount of entries in the division).

The LCO raffle this year already has about $1500 worth of schwag to give away and that doesn't include the Innova Mini Basket, the Innova Traveler Basket, the Innova Sport Basket and the Innova Pro Basket that will be included in the raffle.

I am also donating an Innova Sport basket to the Washington State Series to use as a fundraiser however the leadership sees fit.

I am confident that the WSS will be better this year and I am a strong believer in voting with your feet.

[Mr. Anderson]

Originally Posted by Yoduh

Well Said Kyle. Been following this from the beginning and I really see all of your points. The biggest thing to me is that a series payout that is done at a 1:1 ratio, you are retaxing ams that have been taxed all year long in every tournament they've played. They are deserving of having their money's be multiplied, not divided again.. ESPECIALLY with old picked over plastic stashes. Greedy vending needs to stop. Keep waking up the sheep Kyle.
Hopefully last year was a growing year for the series, hence the reason the money had t go where it did. It does make sense that people shouldn't have to float their own money out to run a series, which they actually have to do. So lets give growth a chance and see what happens this year..

I do not understand how 1:1 ratio of script payout = taxing. Do you expect vendors to supply the scrip at cost? Why would any vendor choose to do that? (especially when they had to pay for the responsibility) The players put X dollars into the series and they got X out, seems fair. (They actually got more than X but they should not feel that they deserve 2X or 3X the players should appreciate any personal gain they recieve)

Non-Profit clubs can choose to do scrip at cost but then their is less money to improve courses, tournaments, promote the sport etc. etc. if this is the case organizers are volunteering their time, money, and effort just so that individual players get more stuff. I do not believe this is sustainable plan to growing disc golf.

No one should feel they are entitled to reap the benefit of volunteer effort and donations. All that I am hearing is "The 2012 WSS sucked because I didn't get a big enough prize."

[Wobbly Bob]

Originally Posted by kylesmart

And bob well the only thing you did was not have new plastic to offer me which I do like to throw art but art which I have been or played in.

Kyle, I think that it is time to put these issues to rest and that you allow the WSS to move forward as opposed to living in the past. I can sense your anger with me and I'm not sure why. Is it truly because I awarded schwag with older custom hot stamps? Be truthful now. Every disc given out was brand new, never been thrown and some of it was stuff you can't purchase at a retail outlet.

I gave the WSS 13.33% of the Am Purse for the right to redeem WSS script. You had the opportunity to submit a bid yourself but opted not to do so. I gave freely of my time to officiate and do scores at your tournament. I gave out one disc per division as a DFL award, not to mention what I passed out to the kids that attended your event. I did these things out of love for the sport. You seem to think that I'm some profiteer that rapes and plunders disc golfers across the state. Nothing could be further from the truth, the INWS Store does not pocket profits from tournaments, it turns that profit around and gives it back to the disc golf community as added cash to the Pro purses, added schwag to the Am purses, free lunches and or dinners for the players, a keg of beer at the awards, or a live band for the players party on Saturday night.

I offer the flag of peace to you and desire that we go forward with forgiveness and understanding for all involved.

[3 Fingers]

Bob my GF's kids & I would like to thank you for the disc's they got ... Thank You !!!

[ski2man]

Originally Posted by Mr. Anderson

All that I am hearing is "The 2012 WSS sucked because I didn't get a big enough prize."

agreed on that...I never get a big enough prize....I never get a prize I play for the fun and challenge of it. Any prize for me is awesome!!!

[3 Fingers]

Jub can you post a list of the WSS somewhere please ..