Smoke Free?

[Adam Schneider]

Originally Posted by ChUcK

Leslie, have you ever considered the fact that you may have some personal habits that others find repulsive?

Do Leslie's other personal habits affect everyone within a 100' radius?

[ChUcK]

Originally Posted by Adam Schneider

Do Leslie's other personal habits affect everyone within a 100' radius?

They might, I don't know what her personal habits are.

By choosing to go somewhere with prior knowledge that cigarettes will be smoked by peers, and then whining about it afterward, it becomes apparent that metacognition may not be Leslie's strong suit. Therefore, I stuck my nose in (probably unnecessarily) and offered a new view to consider.

Dan, separate cigarette smoke from littering. That is a whole different can of worms. You're right, though, butts on the ground make my blood boil- just no more so than any other piece of trash I see on the ground.

[emmarose]

comparing cigarettes to other habits is a nonargument. cigarette smoke will kill you... picking your nose probably will not... to argue anything else is ignorant. i recently heard a piece on npr about banning smoking even more than it already is due to studies on second hand smoke and it's lack of dissipating even in the great outdoors... the carcinogens and the nasties don't just disappear into some kind of magical carcinogen and tar-fairy land... even if you can no longer smell the smoke the poisons are there...

... now, this does not mean that i do not totally sympathize with smokers... i battle every day with my absolute infatuation with cigarettes. it is incredibly hard to not smoke once you've been doing it for a while and i fully believe that nonsmokers will never be able to wrap their heads around what a total bitch it is, but i still think it is unacceptable to smoke... and sometimes i do it anyway...

... main point is, comparing cigarettes to clipping your toenails and leaving them around the house in little piles or wiping your boogies on the bathroom wall is silly... that kinda deplorable behaviour will not kill the innocent bystander...

[Ol' Bob]

I'm giving up licking bathroom walls right now! It will have to be easier than the ten times I quit smoking.

Moderation in all things (except cigarettes). I could never moderate those damned things. They must put something in there that does that. Good cigars don't do that. Anyway, my payoff for all those years of two packs is the smoke now hurts and makes me cough, even when it's in micro-amounts. I hope that gives the cigarette smokers something to look forward to. Better to kick now than later.

So yes, I do know what it's like to be hooked. And I believe the junkies who say that cigarettes are harder to quit than skag.

[Chuck Kennedy]

i would rather see a ban of peeing in the woods at courses than banning smoking. the whole peeing whenever you can on a course is just ridiculous.

http://www.aolnews.com/2011/04/13/streets-awash-in...troduces-open/

[bryan_luoma]

What are the real solutions to this problem?
Who's responsibility is it to make sure you are not exposed to second hand smoke (on the golf course or elsewhere)?

Maybe we need to change the Oregon labor laws?
Should we consider modifying the privacy laws too?
More education on the dangers of smoking?
Might we extend the smoking ban beyond just restaurants, taverns, and bars?
How about starting or seeking existing petitions to prevent the sale of tobacco or shutting down tobacco companies?

I saw a story on CNBC recently of a business owner who prohibited his employees from smoking. He legally deployed random analysis for the presence of nicotine and fired offenders. This could work in some states?

Immediate options:
1) Do not enter (or remove yourself from) an environment with second-hand smoke.
2) Ask the offender to stop smoking because it is dangerous to your health.

WRT the disc golf environment, I think option two "should" be pretty effective in general.

[Sean Phillips]

Originally Posted by Chuck Kennedy

http://www.aolnews.com/2011/04/13/streets-awash-in...troduces-open/

Those would be awesome to have on courses. Too many courses lack restrooms which leaves us "gotta go" folks few options.

[emmarose]

Originally Posted by Sean Phillips

Those would be awesome to have on courses. Too many courses lack restrooms which leaves us "gotta go" folks few options.

pretty much still leaves the ladies up the pee creek without a... ummm... not really sure where i'm going with this...

... but... i still find the lack of surplus & clean potty options for the women folk entirely unacceptable... it's time to start a revolution... i demand clean toilet seats and fresh, breathable air!!!

power to the pee-ple...

[JMan]

My standard comment here is...once the powers that be convince all of us smaokers to drop the habit, what will they tax next? You realize we smokers voluntarily pay very high taxes, and after we all buy into how bad it is and quit, where is all that tax revenue going to come from. You'll have to pick a product that is used predominately by middle to lower incomes, and something that is used frequently enough that daily or weekly purchases are made. So that pretty much narrows it down to higher taxes on baby formula, diapers, soda, alcohol (slippery slope here, as I don't mind being around smoke as much as a person who is drunk...I don't). And my stock answer to those who claim that being around second hand smoke is worse than being the smoker...well, looks like I made the right choice there. It never works well when you try to legislate morality or vice...hello prohibition. I'll be a curtious smoker, you be a curtious non-smoker.

[Ol' Bob]

I agree with Honest Abe on this one.

Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded.

That said, the formulation of popular brand cigarettes is a crime against the human species for profit. It is probably as much an abuse of the plant as it is of the smoker. If cigarettes were only tobacco, we might not be having this discussion.

[Jason Philips]

Originally Posted by Ol' Bob

If cigarettes were only tobacco, we might not be having this discussion.

I agree and disagree with that statement. Entitlement will make any person complain and if persuasive enough more will follow.

It boils down to respect. Respect those around you, plain and simple.

[TYVEK]

Originally Posted by Ol' Bob

I agree with Honest Abe on this one.

That said, the formulation of popular brand cigarettes is a crime against the human species for profit. It is probably as much an abuse of the plant as it is of the smoker. If cigarettes were only tobacco, we might not be having this discussion.

i totally agree with this! yes if cigarettes were "pure" like they started out as then we wouldnt be having all this hoopla about carcinageons and them killing us. and they wouldnt be addictive. why cant we just make our tobacco without the chemicals that they feel they need to put in them?????! whats wrong with just a good old tobacco leaf dried roled and smoked? that would be much better for everybody.

[Matt B.]

Originally Posted by TYVEK

i totally agree with this! yes if cigarettes were "pure" like they started out as then we wouldnt be having all this hoopla about carcinageons and them killing us. and they wouldnt be addictive. why cant we just make our tobacco without the chemicals that they feel they need to put in them?????! whats wrong with just a good old tobacco leaf dried roled and smoked? that would be much better for everybody.

There is definitely a lot of nasty stuff in cigarettes. But tobacco is still addictive and carcinogenic and unhealthy to smoke even when it's straight off the plant.

[HarrisonH]

My two cents are that outdoor cigarette smoke is quite honestly the least of our worries as a society. Sure, the smoker should be alarmed that they are directly inhaling the carcinogens associated with tobacco, particularly the additives used, and indoor second hand smoke can build to toxic levels quick.
I think that in the broad spectrum of things, there is a flood of other toxins in our society that far outweighs the slight addition of outdoor second hand smoke that may set off flares of asthma or sinusitis, or even general discomfort. My intuition tells me that in most cases those conditions are much more largely caused by emissions from cars, fumes from VOCs in virtually everything from your furniture, paint, carpets, and cleaning agents and more, and general pollution from the industrial dependency and lack of environmental stringencies in other aspects of our society. To start blaming the second hand smoke of a guy in a park is ludicrous, IMO, and there are much more important battles to fight. Look at the bright side, smokers are flooding tax dollars into our economy. Just stand upwind.

[Ol' Bob]

Natural tobacco, as has been said, is addictive. It hasn't had its addictiveness enhanced.

==============

The air on this course where I live and golf is not affected much by automotive and industrial pollution (Fukushima aside, for a few half-lives). That is why I am here. Not much but trees upwind for thirty-some miles to the sea. And I will tell you honestly, second-hand cigarette smoke bothers my bronchials from long distances. Herbal smoke does not. Being in a house or car where someone has smoked cigarettes bothers. When I say bothers, I mean from coughing up mucus to extreme discomfort. That's the luck of the draw for me, but you all should know there are some of us who it really hurts. Call bullshit if you want to be that kind if ass.

[HarrisonH]

Originally Posted by Ol' Bob

Natural tobacco, as has been said, is addictive. It hasn't had its addictiveness enhanced.

==============

When I say bothers, I mean from coughing up mucus to extreme discomfort. That's the luck of the draw for me, but you all should know there are some of us who it really hurts. Call bullshit if you want to be that kind if ass.

I do smoke, and I only smoke very natural tobacco, with organic unbleached papers. I agree, they are just as addictive, but I guarantee you they are much less harsh to others around. Marlboros, Camels, and everything like them smell like poison at second hand, even to me.

==============

I am by no means trying to call bullshit. The point I am bringing up is that second hand smoke may make existing bronchial conditions flare, but it is highly unlikely that the outdoor second hand smoke of others in your life caused those conditions, compared with other factors.

This is a tough topic, because obviously things are screwed either way. I think the best thing is for us all to be respectful of one another, however I do lean towards the side of designated smoking areas. I also think smokers should roll their own natural tobacco and stop supporting big tobacco.

Anyway, last thing I am trying to do here is ruffle any feathers. This topic is way beyond black and white, as are most. But it's always fun to spark discussion.

[Ol' Bob]

Originally Posted by HarrisonH

... but it is highly unlikely that the outdoor second hand smoke of others in your life caused those conditions, compared with other factors.

I already covered that my problems probably have most to do with all the cigarettes I smoked many years ago. But now I'm very sensitive to others' smoke and nearly have to run out of a smoke stream. It's that bad at this time of year. Think of burning plastic. When I run my diesel tractor to mow the course, I wear a full industrial type respirator mask. But the truth is, ciggy smoke is worse feeling to my system than the diesel exhaust.

I'm pretty sure that I could cure that sensitivity by starting to smoke again. I wonder how long my lungs would last if I did that. I have started smoking is self defense years back. But the overall degradation of my feeling of wellbeing forced me to go through withdrawals yet another time. Quitting is tough. After doing it so many times, never again.

[TreeLove]

http://www.pdga.com/announcements/2011-worlds-non-smoking-policy

[emmarose]

Originally Posted by TreeLove

http://www.pdga.com/announcements/2011-worlds-non-smoking-policy

well done, pdga.

[TYVEK]

Originally Posted by emmarose

well done, pdga.

no, not well done at all. its more like SHAME ON YOU PDGA!!!!! banning usage of illegal substances is totally understandable, but not legal substances. whats next your going to tell me that we have to use a certain hair gel or we all have to use deoderant??!!

just one more nail in the coffin of america's so called freedom.