Epic Illegal? - PDGA

General Scales · #1 April 6th, 2011, 11:28 AM

Did the PDGA outlaw the use of the Aerobee Epic this year in tournament play?

Chuck Kennedy · #2 April 6th, 2011, 11:35 AM

Not that I know of. Where did you see that?

General Scales · #3 April 6th, 2011, 12:00 PM

That is what I had heard. I thought I had read it somewhere on one of the many disc golf blogs around here. Perhaps it was a consideration? Question is, how is it even legal? It doesn't conform to a lot of the standards.

Chuck Kennedy · #4 April 6th, 2011, 01:50 PM

Epic was "grandfathered" before the new standards were in updated that made it fall outside of specs. I post the official approved disc list so if it's still on there, then it's legal: http://www.pdga.com/documents/pdga-approved-discs-pdf

sillybizz · #5 April 6th, 2011, 02:31 PM

Epic illegal? More like Epic fail.

EnigmaSquad · #6 April 6th, 2011, 03:33 PM

Epic is Legal. New regulations make a disc illegal if it has a non-concentic rim (not centered) but the Epic was grandfathered. Therefore it is on the list that was previously posted.
This is my understanding anyway...

HarrisonH · #7 April 6th, 2011, 06:25 PM

I love how in Disc Golf a disc produced/added to the PDGA approved list is considered "grandfathered" from 2003... or am I missing something?

jshrack · #8 April 6th, 2011, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarrisonH

I love how in Disc Golf a disc produced/added to the PDGA approved list is considered "grandfathered" from 2003... or am I missing something?

Huh?

captain jack · #9 April 6th, 2011, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jshrack

Huh?

The Epic was approved by the PDGA way back in 'ought three.
Ancient times, like the Mesopotamian era.

I remember back then, Innova used to have this nice candy plastic, I think it was called C.E., or something.

Chuck Kennedy · #10 April 6th, 2011, 09:27 PM

The disc standards that made the Epic fall outside the guidelines were updated effective Jan 1, 2008. So all discs approved prior to that date were grandfathered that fell outside any of the new specs. However, I think the Epic may have been one of the only discs that fell outside the new specs at that time.

General Scales · #11 April 7th, 2011, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck Kennedy

The disc standards that made the Epic fall outside the guidelines were updated effective Jan 1, 2008. So all discs approved prior to that date were grandfathered that fell outside any of the new specs. However, I think the Epic may have been one of the only discs that fell outside the new specs at that time.

So what we are saying is that we have a disc that is illegal by today standards yet isn't because it was made before the rule change? This is ludicrous

. That should also mean that the turbo putter should be legal since it WAS legal till the PDGA took away it's approval.

Chuck Kennedy · #12 April 7th, 2011, 08:18 AM

Quote:

So what we are saying is that we have a disc that is illegal by today standards yet isn't because it was made before the rule change? This is ludicrous. That should also mean that the turbo putter should be legal since it WAS legal till the PDGA took away it's approval.

Of course you played right into the follow up. The Turbo Putt was mistakenly approved by the Tech group due to a more liberal perception of what a "circular disc" meant. The Board determined that a circle could not have scallops and really needed to be a circle as stated in the specs existing at that time. The updated specs after that incident simply made that more clear. In addition, approvals were moved to the Board rather than just the Tech group to make sure similar misinterpretations didn't occur in the future. The Turbo shouldn't have been approved and that issue was resolved appropriately with the manufacturer.

The Board has every right to grandfather products that were made before the standards changed in the same way you can't be charged by a new law placed in effect after you did something that was legal at the time. There are targets that are currently grandfathered as Championship targets that do not yet meet all of the standards updated in February 2009. However, the specs on these targets and the Epic cannot be modified by the manufacturers without the modified versions meeting the new specs.

Ol' Bob · #13 April 7th, 2011, 09:18 AM

Is the Epic just an eccentricity?

General Scales · #14 April 7th, 2011, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck Kennedy

Of course you played right into the follow up. The Turbo Putt was mistakenly approved by the Tech group due to a more liberal perception of what a "circular disc" meant. The Board determined that a circle could not have scallops and really needed to be a circle as stated in the specs existing at that time. The updated specs after that incident simply made that more clear. In addition, approvals were moved to the Board rather than just the Tech group to make sure similar misinterpretations didn't occur in the future. The Turbo shouldn't have been approved and that issue was resolved appropriately with the manufacturer.

The Board has every right to grandfather products that were made before the standards changed in the same way you can't be charged by a new law placed in effect after you did something that was legal at the time. There are targets that are currently grandfathered as Championship targets that do not yet meet all of the standards updated in February 2009. However, the specs on these targets and the Epic cannot be modified by the manufacturers without the modified versions meeting the new specs.

Well, that actually makes a lot of sense. I don't use either disc so it never bothers me. Thank you Chuck for the clarifications.

Chuck Kennedy · #15 April 7th, 2011, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Is the Epic just an eccentricity?

Definitely off-centric...

jshrack · #16 April 7th, 2011, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck Kennedy

I post the official approved disc list so if it's still on there, then it's legal: http://www.pdga.com/documents/pdga-approved-discs-pdf

I don't think you could have been more clear... thank you!

Uhlman · #17 April 8th, 2011, 08:00 AM

The real question is, who in thier right mind would throw the Epic in a tourniment?

Ol' Bob · #18 April 8th, 2011, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uhlman

The real question is, who in thier right mind would throw the Epic in a tourniment?

Someone with a strong thumb, a big arm, and a good rotator cuff.

barbikes · #19 April 8th, 2011, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uhlman

The real question is, who in thier right mind would throw the Epic in a tourniment?

I happen to have the answer to that question. This guy:

http://www.pdga.com/player_stats/41218/2011

Notice his current rating is 970.

I was lucky enough to get to play a round with him at DeLaveaga about three years ago. He carries several Epics and can throw them 400 feet plus using an overhand throw similar to throwing a baseball. In fact he used to be a baseball pitcher. It seems that a lot of guys that like the Epic used to be baseball pitchers. He would throw it high just like he was throwing in from deep outfield to homeplate and it would corkscrew about three times and then pull out and glide in steep, fast, and straight right at the basket. It was an incredible thing to see. He also swears by the Aerobie Arrow for putting. All I can say about that is he is a much better putter than I am!

Toby Puttzinski · #20 April 8th, 2011, 07:57 PM

I'd say it's the Indian, not the arrow.