Official Announcement: CSI to split weekends

[LJ Jubner]

It's 54

The question of what DGCR states is an interesting one, DGCR is like wikipedia. Any tom dick or silly can change par just on a whim

[Bullseye]

Originally Posted by LJ Jubner

It's 54

The question of what DGCR states is an interesting one, DGCR is like wikipedia. Any tom dick or silly can change par just on a whim

Which is equally as absurd as calling Sea-Tac a par-54 course, because it clearly is not.

[cefire]

But it makes the course "harder", somehow...I think...

[sillybizz]

Benson State Park is the hardest course in the world because I play it as par 1/2 a stroke.

[CMC206]

Dang!

[TreeLove]

Originally Posted by CMC206

Does Sea-Tac play Par 54 in Tournaments? I just noticed that it says Par 60 on DG review.

Will you play the course differently if the par is a 60?

[LJ Jubner]

Originally Posted by Bullseye

Which is equally as absurd as calling Sea-Tac a par-54 course, because it clearly is not.

Par is a goal that most players will never realize at SeaTac. When it was designed 18 3's was the norm. If you ask me 54 is a great target score because it's what a 1000 rated player should shoot on AVG. there.

Ball golf does not change par from skill level to skill level (Ladies to Men yes normally it's only one or two strokes) It's done with shorter tees. Now with Blue Lake because it was designed with 3-4-5's Par should be whatever it was designed too. Not what some silly come lately thinks it should be after the fact.

[sillybizz]

[olydiscgolf]

Originally Posted by LJ Jubner

Par is a goal that most players will never realize at SeaTac. When it was designed 18 3's was the norm. If you ask me 54 is a great target score because it's what a 1000 rated player should shoot on AVG. there.

Ball golf does not change par from skill level to skill level (Ladies to Men yes normally it's only one or two strokes) It's done with shorter tees. Now with Blue Lake because it was designed with 3-4-5's Par should be whatever it was designed too. Not what some silly come lately thinks it should be after the fact.

Actually Jub, a 1000 rated player should shoot a 56-57 there. The SSA is around 56-57.

I love how this thread is turning into the standard issue "PAR" debate!

To take us way off topic, if your looking for par 4's and 5's.....Come help dig holes for the Shelton Springs DGC! Saturday the 26th at 10:00 AM. Bring a shovel and rock bar if you have one.

[CMC206]

Personally I don't really care. I just want to play the course the right way. I do think a couple of the holes on the back nine should be par 4's. Just sayin.. =) CMC

[LJ Jubner]

Originally Posted by sillybizz

It's nice to see you found a bra that fits properly Silly

[LJ Jubner]

Open weekend updated 2nd "step up iron arm" particpant

[SPIDER-DAN]

I agree with treelove..........i play seatac to the best of my ability no matter what the par is. My best score at seatac is par (54) and i did it twice...........i was pretty stoked. If i shot that on the amatuer course at fort steilacoom i would cry and go home and not play disc golf for months or until the anti-depressants wore off. If i go to seatac i want to shoot under +5..........if i go to play fort steilacoom amatuer i want to shoot -10 or better.

Just step up to the challenge.........not take the path of least resistance.

[Skookum]

Originally Posted by olydiscgolf

Actually Jub, a 1000 rated player should shoot a 56-57 there. The SSA is around 56-57.

I love how this thread is turning into the standard issue "PAR" debate!

To take us way off topic, if your looking for par 4's and 5's.....Come help dig holes for the Shelton Springs DGC! Saturday the 26th at 10:00 AM. Bring a shovel and rock bar if you have one.

Team Disc golf put the SSA at 58.23 for the first round and 58.51 for the second last weekend.

DO YOU KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS!!! WHAT THATS SAYS ABOUT PAR!!!! IT MEANS THAT CHRIS IS RIGHT....

...about Shelton Springs DGC! Saturday the 26th at 10:00 AM. Bring a shovel and rock bar if you have one.

oh and a little birdie told me we should have our locks tomorrow. Lock plus prepoured anchors means we just need 19 holes dug and we are playing golf.

[Skookum]

Oh and I still believe "par" is not something you set. You don't just look at a 200ft hole in an open field a decide its a par 5. Holes and course should be built so the average strokes from your relative tee pad creates the desired par. I.e. if Seatac was designed to be a par 54 from what I believe to be Blue(SSA 50-54) tee pads then the course needs to be adjusted because there is more than enough proof that the mark has been missed. Personally I think the space warrants the use of par 4s, maybe find a way to stretch it to a par 60, I would prefer to see that over any shorting.

Courses should be as the saying goes "built to par" and we should all go play with the intention of being better than par, after all, who's goal is to be just average?

[LJ Jubner]

As course designers now The MC Boys can design and set par to whatever level they want. I will show up, pay, play and whine about how poorly I played not about how par is all screwed up.

Originally Posted by Skookum

Oh and I still believe "par" is not something you set. You don't just look at a 200ft hole in an open field a decide its a par 5. Holes and course should be built so the average strokes from your relative tee pad creates the desired par. I.e. if Seatac was designed to be a par 54 from what I believe to be Blue(SSA 50-54) tee pads then the course needs to be adjusted because there is more than enough proof that the mark has been missed. Personally I think the space warrants the use of par 4s, maybe find a way to stretch it to a par 60, I would prefer to see that over any shorting.

Courses should be as the saying goes "built to par" and we should all go play with the intention of being better than par, after all, who's goal is to be just average?

"Par has been missed"
thats a good one maybe if you threw farther or putted better or maybe just...

There is a huge difference between tournament stroke play and handicapped stroke play. The real problem is the stupid rating debate. By using a handicap

1. you are already trying to level the field artificially
2. to make your series more attractive competition wise
3. not skill driven like it should be.

I find it interesting that at any Ball golf course you just show up, pay and play. NO mention of what my par should or should not be. Want to have some fun
Go into any Golf Pro shop and tell them par at their course is too low for your game. Know what they would say to you? Maybe some lessons or the pitch and putt around the corner is better suited for your skills.
FYI

1. In Ball golf the average player is 18 over
2. 80% of all ball golfers will never ever break par
3. Realistic goals most want to just break 80

In DG we whine about par. Raise the par at the Tac and you will see a 1200 rated round.

Like Dan said "my personal best is my goal" If it's better than par great if not thats great too. It's still my personal best.

[Bullseye]

Originally Posted by LJ Jubner

In DG we whine about par. Raise the par at the Tac and you will see a 1200 rated round.

I could be wrong here, but I don't think what you "claim" par to be has any effect on ratings whatsoever.

I was curious about this one night when I was posting the results for one of my events. As a test, I submitted the results with an incorrect course par, checked the ratings, then resubmitted the results with the correct par and there was no change. I'd love to hear Chuck Kennedy's feedback on this subject.

[cefire]

You are correct Bullseye - I could care less about beating 'par' at a course and I've already beat "par" at the tac so it isn't an attempt to 'dumb it down' as the argument is often made. What is lost in this whole discussion is that par is assigned on an individual hole level! Likewise, 'par' has no effect on ratings, for reasons that should be obvious to folks who care to look into it (ratings compare players to players more than players to course).

There seems to be a kind of magical thinking that creating a realistic par set by individual holes would make courses somehow easier - if anyone could explain this to me, I'd be happy to listen and try to understand exactly how this miracle occurs Perhaps discs fly further when par is higher or maybe more trees sprout up when par is lowered?

If we want the Tac at its toughest, why not call it par 52 or 50 - then it will become much harder.

On the upside, it (par) doesn't matter for much (only 1 small PDGA rule) so the dream will live on for some!

BTW - If anyone is interested in some good discussion on course design and a lot about how it is much more than putting in tees and baskets, check out this page: http://www.houckdesign.com/course_design_articles.html



Paging Chuck Kennedy or John Houck...

[Wes Hansen]

It's been a long time since I tried to follow a JJ thread.
Par and ratings have nothing to do with each other.
I can find no logic in his points of view.
Perhaps someone with the ability to interpret Jubisms understands what he means...
or why he's saying it.

[sillybizz]

I'm going to hold a tournament at Ferguson Park and then set the "par" at 5 on each hole, that way everyone who plays it will get a rating of at least 1800.