Re design VS Alt pin locations

[SDGA]

Originally Posted by catalystdg

thats great but he shouldn't be able to override what the club already voted and approved
the club voted and approved the new layout (giving me final say on the design, and voted downriver as our number one priority) just my oppinion but the board should not be able to go above the club and override club desisions.

The #1 priority for the SDGA in 2009 was to send an SDGA delagation to the City of Spokane Valley and to Spokane County Parks to seek approval for SDGA installations in those juristictions. The SDGA Steward and the Public Relations Officer were the committee designated to lead this inquiry. The Public Relations Officer was the first appointee to be excused by the Steward in this effort. The SDGA Board, having recieved no reports back from the Steward on this front,was the second party to be excused by the Steward to be privy to progress on this paramount issue. After an entire summer of waiting and pressing for information on this highest priority matter the Board and the Club were finally informed that the then SDGA Steward, another member of the Board and another Club Member had formed their own club and were negotiating on their own to install two new courses: one at Plantt's Ferry and the other at Gateway Park near Stateline. That two new courses were about to be installed in the valley is good news; that the then Steward, his Board member and another Club member 'spirited' away this Club's perogitives and derailed the Club's mission for 2009 is a grave missappropriation of the SDGA's good name. At this time it is crucial for this Club to again re-engage these Valley entities to determine if they understand that they are working with the SDGA or not. If so, there is a whole whale of opprotunity for us that exceeds even our current massive undertakings; if not, then we are still very fortunate to have the excellent sites to develope that are on the books now. Given that elected representitives of this Club have in the past used their association with the Club to forward their own specific interests at the expense of the Club's stated objective in no way inhibits this Club or the current Board from doing what's best for this Club in the right way and at the right time. SDGA

[catalystdg]

Originally Posted by SDGA

The #1 priority for the SDGA in 2009 was to send an SDGA delagation to the City of Spokane Valley and to Spokane County Parks to seek approval for SDGA installations in those juristictions. The SDGA Steward and the Public Relations Officer were the committee designated to lead this inquiry. The Public Relations Officer was the first appointee to be excused by the Steward in this effort. The SDGA Board, having recieved no reports back from the Steward on this front,was the second party to be excused by the Steward to be privy to progress on this paramount issue. After an entire summer of waiting and pressing for information on this highest priority matter the Board and the Club were finally informed that the then SDGA Steward, another member of the Board and another Club Member had formed their own club and were negotiating on their own to install two new courses: one at Plantt's Ferry and the other at Gateway Park near Stateline. That two new courses were about to be installed in the valley is good news; that the then Steward, his Board member and another Club member 'spirited' away this Club's perogitives and derailed the Club's mission for 2009 is a grave missappropriation of the SDGA's good name. At this time it is crucial for this Club to again re-engage these Valley entities to determine if they understand that they are working with the SDGA or not. If so, there is a whole whale of opprotunity for us that exceeds even our current massive undertakings; if not, then we are still very fortunate to have the excellent sites to develope that are on the books now. Given that elected representitives of this Club have in the past used their association with the Club to forward their own specific interests at the expense of the Club's stated objective in no way inhibits this Club or the current Board from doing what's best for this Club in the right way and at the right time. SDGA

yes at the beginning of 2009 expanding toward the valley was one of our #1 objectives, however alot of your other information is incorect. and the accusation that " elected representitives of this Club have in the past used their association with the Club to forward their own specific interests at the expense of the Club's stated objective" is completely false. the clubs job is to promote and improve the sport of disc golf, if a club member or another board member helps another club in some way that does not hurt the sdga nor does it hurt disc golf, in my opinion the more the merrier.

[Stimpi]

Originally Posted by catalystdg

yes at the beginning of 2009 expanding toward the valley was one of our #1 objectives, however alot of your other information is incorect. and the accusation that " elected representitives of this Club have in the past used their association with the Club to forward their own specific interests at the expense of the Club's stated objective" is completely false. the clubs job is to promote and improve the sport of disc golf, if a club member or another board member helps another club in some way that does not hurt the sdga nor does it hurt disc golf, in my opinion the more the merrier.

but... An entity (club, business, citizen) has a reputation and responsibilities to uphold. We all represent the Club, but how many of us are responsible FOR the Club, and the Club's best interests. We, as a Club, have chosen to lay the responsibility on a Board, and chosen the members of that board.
That entity is for the good of the Club, and hopefully the Club, working as a united force, will be for the betterment of disc golf in general.
I wouldn't want someone promoting, in my name, disc golf or anything else I do, by representing themselves as from: Stimpi Ridge Disc Golf, or Mechanic On the Move, without my knowledge and approval. If they had my approval and then take my reputation to make contacts and deals, then create their own business/club to compete with mine. I suppose that is considered just good business, in some circles, but it sounds a little dirty to me.
I wear many hats, one of which is a member and representative of the SDGA, but when I'm working a deal, I make sure people know which hat I'm wearing.

For those of you hating the stupid club, at least give us credit for our continuing efforts on the two existing courses, which has built us a strong enough reputation that the "City" is now knocking on our door, requesting that we hurry up our efforts to place courses in wonderful areas that we've only dreamed about having courses, until now. That's what a good reputation will get you. When you're out complaining about how rundown, too easy, too difficult, and just how wrong everything is, thank the club we even have courses to play on.
Everybody, please stop being so negative. Let's play disc golf and work together to build our courses, and try to teach the uncaring public to care for our courses.

[friable7]

Originally Posted by SDGA

The #1 priority for the SDGA in 2009 was to send an SDGA delagation to the City of Spokane Valley and to Spokane County Parks to seek approval for SDGA installations in those juristictions. The SDGA Steward and the Public Relations Officer were the committee designated to lead this inquiry. The Public Relations Officer was the first appointee to be excused by the Steward in this effort. The SDGA Board, having recieved no reports back from the Steward on this front,was the second party to be excused by the Steward to be privy to progress on this paramount issue. After an entire summer of waiting and pressing for information on this highest priority matter the Board and the Club were finally informed that the then SDGA Steward, another member of the Board and another Club Member had formed their own club and were negotiating on their own to install two new courses: one at Plantt's Ferry and the other at Gateway Park near Stateline. That two new courses were about to be installed in the valley is good news; that the then Steward, his Board member and another Club member 'spirited' away this Club's perogitives and derailed the Club's mission for 2009 is a grave missappropriation of the SDGA's good name. At this time it is crucial for this Club to again re-engage these Valley entities to determine if they understand that they are working with the SDGA or not. If so, there is a whole whale of opprotunity for us that exceeds even our current massive undertakings; if not, then we are still very fortunate to have the excellent sites to develope that are on the books now. Given that elected representitives of this Club have in the past used their association with the Club to forward their own specific interests at the expense of the Club's stated objective in no way inhibits this Club or the current Board from doing what's best for this Club in the right way and at the right time. SDGA

I appreciate any effort by the Board to to clarify with the past Steward or those "entities" that may still be spearheading courses in the Valley. Perhaps the Board will then be able to move forward with developing a formal "One, Two or Five Year Plan" that the Membership can look at and know the direction we are moving. In paraphrasing General Eisenhower talking about D-Day: the plan is everthing. Like a compass, it tells you what direction you were headed until you have to change things...!

I would ask everyone to remember that this is a public forum. You need not sign up to view the material here. The public, the City, potential donors can all come "a-looking" to see how we do what we do. We all may forget what was said but the Forum does not. There are other ways to share opinions and information if it gets too sensitive, contoversial or downright heated.

I am lovin' the peak energy aound disc golf in Spokane. It won't last forever so we need to be focused, and concentrate on solidifying any gains.

Tim N.

[Sky Pilot]

Originally Posted by SDGA

The #1 priority for the SDGA in 2009 was to send an SDGA delagation to the City of Spokane Valley and to Spokane County Parks to seek approval for SDGA installations in those juristictions. The SDGA Steward and the Public Relations Officer were the committee designated to lead this inquiry. The Public Relations Officer was the first appointee to be excused by the Steward in this effort. The SDGA Board, having recieved no reports back from the Steward on this front,was the second party to be excused by the Steward to be privy to progress on this paramount issue. After an entire summer of waiting and pressing for information on this highest priority matter the Board and the Club were finally informed that the then SDGA Steward, another member of the Board and another Club Member had formed their own club and were negotiating on their own to install two new courses: one at Plantt's Ferry and the other at Gateway Park near Stateline. That two new courses were about to be installed in the valley is good news; that the then Steward, his Board member and another Club member 'spirited' away this Club's perogitives and derailed the Club's mission for 2009 is a grave missappropriation of the SDGA's good name. At this time it is crucial for this Club to again re-engage these Valley entities to determine if they understand that they are working with the SDGA or not. If so, there is a whole whale of opprotunity for us that exceeds even our current massive undertakings; if not, then we are still very fortunate to have the excellent sites to develope that are on the books now. Given that elected representitives of this Club have in the past used their association with the Club to forward their own specific interests at the expense of the Club's stated objective in no way inhibits this Club or the current Board from doing what's best for this Club in the right way and at the right time. SDGA

On this issue... I have spoken with the County about this and they are not working with the SDGA on this matter.

Sky Pilot

[friable7]

Originally Posted by Sky Pilot

On this issue... I have spoken with the County about this and they are not working with the SDGA on this matter.

Sky Pilot

Spokane Valley is an incorporated entitiy. Is Plantes Ferry within the incorporated area? IF there is any doubt, the Board would be wise to check with the City of Spokane Valley and any Neighborhood Council(s) in the area. Let's not leave it to chance and omit someone from the process and expect the outcome will always be good...(as in the case of the People's Park Community Neighborhood Council). If all stakeholders have been contacted and they send a congruent message, then it is time for us to move on with business. The next question will then be; what is the current and future plan(s) for SDGA in the greater Spokane area? PLENTY good coming our way! Tim N.

[Parks]

Poking around into such things will leave disc golfers seeming inconsistent and disorganized, as well as add confusion to the process of the Valley club getting courses in.

Jeff had a contact in the county so he could ask the question casually without confusing things.

I don't see any reason not to trust that the Valley club is representing themselves as... themselves. Let them do their thing and we can do ours.

[Timber]

Plantes Ferry Park is in Spokane County, not COSV.

So, re: the original question of DR design, the discussion feels a little nebulous because we don't really know what either option (all-new vs. just-fix-what-needs-fixing) looks like. I walked part of catalysts original proposed layout but I think that got tweaked later. Once we find out specifically what HAS to change and what CANNOT change to meet the Parks Dept requirements, I'd be willing to put together maps of the alternate proposed layouts for discussion and voting purposes, if that would be helpful.

[friable7]

Originally Posted by Parks

Poking around into such things will leave disc golfers seeming inconsistent and disorganized, as well add confusion to the process of the Valley club getting courses in.

Jeff had a contact in the county so he could ask the question casually without confusing things.

I don't see any reason not to trust that the Valley club is representing themselves as... themselves. Let them do their thing and we can do ours.

I'm certainly happy with that. Thanks for the clarification. Tim N.

[Parks]

Attached is the final redesign proposal.

Eric has some ideas about the alt pins and changing only the required holes. Only holes 2 and 15 pose problems where it is hard to find a good solution.

Moving up 2's tee closer to the rocks and moving the pin back and to the right some could work. It would add a buffer of 20-30 feet more in between the basket and the river and would point the tee more away from the river. This would, of course, point it more at 17's green, but that green is also easily visible from the tee.

The only solution I could see for 15 is moving the teepad up the path and maybe moving the basket a little deeper into the woods. This would turn a solid hole into a weak one, but would resolve the erosion issue without having to completely redo all the holes.

I've heard people suggest using 15's old tee, but that throws right over 14's pin and also still has a large risk of kicking down the hillside due to the angle of the tee.

A third solution would be to get the city arborist in there to allow us to clear some of the more unhealthy overgrowth back in that area that could let us make a better hole, but I don't think he has got back to Jeff yet. If we could do this we could definitely use the hole from DRO/C-Re's layout that is L shaped near the road, and it could also give the first solution a more viable green/fairway.

[catalystdg]

jeff and i walked the back side with the arborist's boss yesterday and although we can't personally cut anything they can come in and do some thinning which will make the new layout possible or we could possibly move 17 back 20-30 feet ( both teepad and pin) and play old 18 ? not sure what else to do back there, the new dogleg hole could also be used, i am curious to see what eric has come up with for the alts/changes.

[Parks]

Any ETA on the thinning or is he just throwing that out there?

[catalystdg]

i don't think it would be right away

[Sky Pilot]

The City Arborist was not willing to cut down any stand of trees. He is also not going to allow us to do any cutting. He did seem willing to come down and point out some trees that we could thin in places and have his co-worker arborist do the cutting. However that still begs the question of what exactly we are going to do down there. I would ideally like to see Eric and Chris Re' find some agreement if possible. If not, the board or the club will have to make a final decision.

[Yoduh]

Many courses have been in the ground way longer than Downriver and have been changed due to many circumstances. We have a fairly young course compared to most in the state and it's not a surprise that things would be changed one day. I have loved and grown my roots at Downriver but I feel that a change could do us some good. If it can be done for cheap than even better. Figuring out a patch job for our current course just serves to me a painful reminder of what we used to have. Every time I walk by hole 6 and 8 I am wishing I was launching instead of traipsing through the woods. The course has gotten easier and easier and another patch job pretty much renders it useless for a professional level tournament. I will always remember the old course but a new course can still help make us all better golfers.
It doesn't make sense to keep spreading ourselves thinner and thinner. With no projects actually completed we do not have one concrete course we can point to as our gem. Sort of sad to think of that since we have been here for 10 years. I do feel that there is a resurgence of club members getting involved and the more efforts we get from everyone the more can be accomplished which is very exciting! I recommend that we forget about dollars and cents. That we strongly look at what Eric is proposing and what Christopher is proposing and ask ourselves 2 questions.. 1) Will this course make better golfers? 2) Will this course be something we can all be proud of? We are raising money at a very good clip right now and spending a little extra to have a nice finished product seems to have the biggest payoff.. Unless everyone in Spokane is just so used to everything being unfinished that we are all ok with it..

[Yoduh]

If we aren't satisfied with Eric's or Christopher's than it is time to go back to the drawing board and not accept mediocrity!

[Yoduh]

I am wondering why there is a person posting as the SDGA.. Seems like our club members if spoken for, should be by at the very least the club president (aka stewart.. I mean Stew ward). Seems as if there was some irony in the non SDGA posts.. I will call it nonsdga because it absolutely impossible to state that you don't want someone representing your club in a fictitious manner if that is in fact what you are doing. If there is an actual voice here of the SDGA it would be Sky Pilot or Parks. Both are confirmed board members and seem to represent the club fairly well with accurate statements. I would appreciate it if the NONSDGA would step out from behind the curtain of the clubs non copyrighted, but copyrightable label and makeup an interesting name or their real name for all to see. Until such has happened I have to say to the users of this forum that in no way does the user, the SDGA, opinions or dreamed up instances reflect the actual attitude and position of the actual SDGA. I wouldn't want somebody doing car work or blaming people for unfounded things in my good name

[Yoduh]

Eric BC the Whippet is also a confirmed board member.

[Parks]

I created the SDGA account for official announcements and times when it needed to be made clear that the person was not just giving their opinion and in fact speaking for the SDGA. I gave the password to all board members for this purpose.

It isn't really there for discussion, especially if there's any controversy involved.

[Yoduh]

That sounds good but doesn't really work. I would suggest adding your title to your user name as a signature that way you can post things on the SDGA's and user's will see who you are. Most people can decipher opinion from an actual fact that has to do with the SDGA. The SDGA user on this forum seems to be arguing and make accusations which is not the position of the club or it's members