Willamette Open 2009 - October 3-4 - Page 15 - Oregon Events

scottycb1 · #**281** October 6th, 2009, 01:49 PM

Its a 240 ft. Hole, if you cant make it you can lay up. The final three cards in pro were 12 for 12 with 11 birdies in the 2nd round. It was plenty fair.

Bullseye · #**282** October 6th, 2009, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikestorrs

Dave, thanks a million for getting the TD report in. I hate that damn report. There is a shorter form for incarcerating someone.

I spotted hole 11 on Sat. I am actually pretty suprised that Shaun got a 22. I thought it was a 21 but you really lose count after the score reaches 15. Watching that go down was so hard. There should have been something to stop the pain.

Sorry Dion, but I am going to argue vehemetly against that type of hole next year. I saw a card with two 19's. I saw smart lay-ups turn into multiple bogeys. I saw one guy shoot a 11 while the rest of his card birdied. Those sort of scars will last a long time.

Thank you for talking sense Mike. While I didn't see or play the hole in question, I have talked to several people who did and I have yet to hear anything good about it. It sounds very flukey and overly punishing to me. Especially when you hear about people who DID lay up and still took 5s or worse.

jevon · #**283** October 6th, 2009, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullseye

It sounds very flukey and overly punishing to me. Especially when you hear about people who DID lay up and still took 5s or worse.

It sounds like people can't putt...

Bullseye · #**284** October 6th, 2009, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jevon

It sounds like people can't putt...

No, I'm talking about open players who definitely CAN putt.

Casey · #**285** October 6th, 2009, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottycb1

Its a 240 ft. Hole, if you cant make it you can lay up. The final three cards in pro were 12 for 12 with 11 birdies in the 2nd round. It was plenty fair.

NOBODY has said it wasn't fair. I really enjoyed the hole. It was just kind of a bummer that there wasn't anything in place to keep people from shooting themselvs in the foot over and over. It wasn't enjoyable to watch and everytime you heard talk around the course of the highest score on the hole rising from 11, to 15, to 19(2X) and finally 22 it went from kind of funny to kind of depressing. It overshadowed the standard talk of who is having great rounds and fighting for the lead. Again, it WAS FAIR, it just lessened the experience a bit for some of us, including those of us that got 2's and 3's on the thing. A lot of the blame for that lies on the folks refused to laid up.

As far as the pro's doing well on it, that's great! I think most of Advanced did quite well on it during the first round, we just got stuck with a mean wind coming off the water that kind of made landing the shot more difficult. Also, we're not as good as you guys, shhhh don't tell anyone.......

Sausage Fingers · #**286** October 6th, 2009, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott

803.09 B. A player whose disc is considered out-of-bounds shall receive one penalty throw. The player may elect to play the next shot from:
(1) The previous lie as evidenced by the marker disc or, if the marker disc has been moved from an approximate lie, as agreed to by the majority of the group or an official; or (2) A lie that is up to one meter away from and perpendicular to the point where the disc last crossed into out-of-bounds, as determined by a majority of the group or an official. This holds true even if the direction takes the
lie closer to the hole; or (3) Within the designated Drop Zone, if provided. These options may be limited by the tournament director as a special condition (see 804.01).

804.01D. No rules may be stipulated which conflict with the PDGA Rules of Play, unless approved by the Tour Manager of the PDGA.

I wonder if the PDGA Tour Manager approved this rules change?

Is it really a conflict when it is mentioned in the rules?

"These options may be limited" - the TD just said that your only option is #1
"No rules may be stipulated which conflict" - limiting the choices for 803.09B is allowed but the TD can't make up new things like "player must throw with off hand or with eyes closed or from your knees"

Scott · #**287** October 6th, 2009, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sausage Fingers

Is it really a conflict when it is mentioned in the rules?

"These options may be limited" - the TD just said that your only option is #1
"No rules may be stipulated which conflict" - limiting the choices for 803.09B is allowed but the TD can't make up new things like "player must throw with off hand or with eyes closed or from your knees"

But the rule stipulates the player can choose where to take their shot after going OB. If the TD says they can only re-tee then they have changed that rule, correct?

Sausage Fingers · #**288** October 6th, 2009, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott

But the rule stipulates the player can choose where to take their shot after going OB. If the TD says they can only re-tee then they have changed that rule, correct?

Nope! The TD has only limited the choices down to just one and it is mentioned in the same rule that the TD can do so.

I think I remember that the origin of the rule (804.01D) is so a TD can't place a multiple shot penalty on certain areas around the course. When I first started playing dg we used to make the bark dust around swings and playground equipment OB with +2 penalty for throwing there due the likelihood of children being there. The PDGA wanted to put the kibosh on that kind of thing.

Scott · #**289** October 6th, 2009, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sausage Fingers

Nope! The TD has only limited the choices down to just one and it is mentioned in the same rule that the TD can do so.

I'm really not sure why I didn't catch that the first time.

Time to go.

LegoRules · #**290** October 6th, 2009, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smobro

Smo! Great improvement in your game this year! Congrats! You should play Team Disc Golf this winter so you can keep your game in top shape for next year! I hear there is plenty of room on Saturday to play...

I would love to but I am taking some time away from the game to practice my putting. Gawain kept calling me "Jordan" every time I hit the bottom of the basket this weekend.

Seriously though, I need to catch up with my family for a while. They have been very supportive but want to have me around more frequently. My guess is that will change soon since I am kind of a pain in the Arse

I played alot of tourney golf this year and it has definitely made me better, but playing with the Crusties has certainly helped. Looking forward to getting on a card with you next year for sure.

Hey also it is not every weekend just 10 Saturday's really between now and Febuary.

Cindy

Rideout · #**291** October 6th, 2009, 05:52 PM

I enjoy seeing challenging holes like #11. It looked into my eyes, it saw weakness, and it kicked me square in the teeth. After having a decent day at Adair on Saturday, I proceeded to add 20 strokes to my overall score from the two times I played hole #11. My first go at it, I threw two drives ob and then laid up. Then I proceeded to throw my upshot ob. I finally put it on the green and cashed the putt to end the hole with a 9. My second attempt at the hole had me throwing four drives ob before laying up (last round, a little less hope, a little more tin cup). This time I actually put my upshot on the green and made my putt to finish the hole with an 11.

In any given round I should be able to three the hole with little chance of error. I did not play the hole intelligently, I lacked confidence and conviction in my throws, and I suddenly collapsed mentally. Live and learn. I look forward to playing the hole next year and will be disappointed if I don’t get the chance to redeem myself.

Mike Rideout

JMan · #**292** October 6th, 2009, 05:57 PM

Is there a pic? I wanna see the beast

OneDarkRebel · #**293** October 6th, 2009, 06:32 PM

A lot of this information is old but it gives a little insight at least and some cool records of infamy...it lists the highest "pro" score on one hole to be a 27.

http://www.frivolist.com/records.htm

As far as hole 11 goes, I did enjoy it. I birdied the first round and in the second round, with the wind, I did choose to play conservative and lay up. Unfortunately I didn't execute in the wind and my 2nd, 3rd got pushed up and away and I took an 8 on that one. That's the way it goes though! Anyhow, if you haven't seen that website before it's a little outdated I think, but a fun one to check out!

Casey · #**294** October 6th, 2009, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneDarkRebel

Anyhow, if you haven't seen that website before it's a little outdated I think, but a fun one to check out!

Most likely is outdated now. Most OB's on a hole is claimed to be 9, unless there were several missed putts or a long lay up sequence involved the 22 on Saturday could have been done with as many as 10 OB's. Perhaps we were present for the setting of a new record, dubious as it might be.........

chanman · #**295** October 6th, 2009, 09:10 PM

Hey now. That hole was a great golf hole! If players are taking 22s on it, its their fault, not the courses! Most of the complaints Im reading are from people who WATCHED players play poorly on the hole, not those who PLAYED poorly on it. Everyone that I have talked to, who played poorly on the hole, loved it. I got a 5p on it, and it was my fault, not the holes. If people are really annoyed with that hole, they can place some AM tees on it or something. If anything, the hole strengthens players mental games. But personally, I think the hole is great and should not be changed.

snap7times · #**296** October 6th, 2009, 10:16 PM

Live. Learn. Grow.

T-what? · #**297** October 7th, 2009, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snap7times

Live. Learn. Grow.

WORD!

Micah · #**298** October 12th, 2009, 08:21 PM

I took a two on it first round and a ten second round, I liked the hole, it was fair, and I look forward to playing it again next year.