Oregon state disc golf championships

[keith_shupp]

Originally Posted by Scott

I am the opposite side of your coin. I have attended both PDGA events and non-PDGA events and for the most part have had better experiences at PDGA events.

To answer your question: None. Does that mean I am no longer qualified to participate in this discussion?

Scott not at all I was wondering if you had or not that tells me alot about who Im talking with I do not know you by your forum name. But once again I say its the past and we need to move forward on a standard for running a state championship. Lets make it easy and remove the old argument and come up with ideals that we can bounce off each other. lets try the were,when and who wants to help then we can come back to non - Pdga or Pdga.

I have talk to few people about this who dont bother with this forum or who get on a computer now im trying to get ideals from people on the forum to see what they can come up with and see what will work and who wants to help so lets try this.

[all2common]

I would like to see it rotate around the state from year to year, including eventually being held in Pendleton at their new course. I also would like to see the local clubs sponsor/host/td the event. A traveling trophy would be pretty neat as well.

[Magilla]

Originally Posted by keith_shupp

Magilla I talk to you about why the old times dont show up and why I dont play the series any more its because you need to seperate the pro event from the Am events they are to big look how fast the events field up this year and most of the players are ams. Most of us old timers dont want to wait in huge groups on the tee and have a slow pace thats not how they do it in ball golf for the pro players. Its time to seperate the skill players from the Ams and its not a slam to the Am players about what im saying here.

I have talked to MANY different people about splitting Pro & Am weekends.

Some have been open to the idea...others more reserved.

The UDA (Umpqua Disc Assoc) has intentions to split next years event into 2 events in the slot of this years GNW.

For example..Lava Launch & IncrediBowl will have seperate flights fror ALL PROS & AMS

We can not force a TD or Club to hold 2 events.... I wish they would just see the advantages and give it a try...if it doesnt work out then go back to Pro/Am the next time.

["Over the Hill" Bob]

Ok, I'll go ahead and chime in here! I'm still trying to think this thing through, and I agree with a lot that has been said and don't agree with some that has been said. Like I said I'm still trying to get my head around all of this. Here are some of my thoughts at this time.

An Oregon State Champion should be just that, an Oregon Champion and not a "Close to Oregon" Champion. Sorry to the Couv!

I'm not sure of another sport that crowns a champion on just one event. It should be multiple events leading up to a Championship.

Our disc golf demographics to me show four distinct areas: PDX/Metro, Mid Willamette Valley, Southern Oregon, and Central Oregon. Sure there are players in other areas of the state but these are the main ones. A player from Coos Bay would play in Southern Oregon, a player from Astoria would play in PDX/Metro, a player from Baker would play for Central, and so on.

Each area would hold 3 quailifying events in the spring/summer, in there area. Others may attend but only players from that area score points toward qualifying for "State" in that area. In the fall we hold the Oregon State Championships and crown a State Champion. Each regional event would hold back fee's to go toward trophies.

So this is where my mind wandering ends for now. Off to get lunch!

Bob

[Uhlman]

I realize I am new these forums and have never played in a DG tournament; however, I do have lots of experience with other types of tourneys. The idea of a series or round robin style tournament to determine an Oregon Champion is in my opinion one of the better ways. Multiple venues in different parts of the state create a varied playing experience for all involved. It spreads the work around and exposes DGers to new courses and new people. To be the Champion you would have to the best score of the series (however, the scoring is worked). As to the inclusion of “Non-natives,” how many people from Washington or Idaho are going to want to go to Grants Pass or K-falls? A good mix of East-West and North-South courses will keep the number of “Non-natives” to a minimum. And, if by chance there is a “Non-native” that got to the required number of events and scores good enough to win, us “Natives” will just have to deal with it and beat the pants off them next year.

[Uhlman]

Originally Posted by "Over the Hill" Bob

Ok, Our disc golf demographics to me show four distinct areas: PDX/Metro, Mid Willamette Valley, Southern Oregon, and Central Oregon. Sure there are players in other areas of the state but these are the main ones. A player from Coos Bay would play in Southern Oregon, a player from Astoria would play in PDX/Metro, a player from Baker would play for Central, and so on.

I thought Baker was in Eastern Oregon When did they move Baker?

[all2common]

I agree Uhlman. I've been trying to be patient with the valley folk ever since I moved here from PR. Most of them don't realize that Eastern Oregon is another few hours east of where they thought it was.

[keith_shupp]

Over the hill Bob thanks for the input alot you said makes sense but having a series is not it. a state championship is one event and all types of players from around the state should compete for the title. they should not have to play in series to have the right to compete for the state title. the state championship should be who is the best player to show up and win that weekend. Anyone can win any given weekend but why have a series and still play that one weekend to see who the best. Also by not having a series you will have more players in the pool because some players cant play every event or even some events to make it a series so why should those players been turned away from having a shot at the state finals.

[Bullseye]

I agree that we definitely need a legitimate state championship. In fact, a while back I had mentioned using Oregon Series events as qualifiers for a state championship, much in the way the USDGC awards positions. I still think that would be a great way to do it, but with people thinking more along the lines of making it strictly for Oregon golfers that might not be the best way to do it.

However, with all due respect to Keith and his opinions, I definitely think this event should be PDGA sanctioned. In addition to the obvious insurance reasons, sanctioning an event adds another level of credibility that non-sanctioned events generally do not reach. Also, this sport is growing rapidly and sanctioned events are getting more and more popular. I know I would be more inclined to both play in, or help run the event if it were sanctioned.

As for costs, having recently been involved in running the Rose City Open (B- Tier) I can say that the fees are pretty reasonable. $3 from each entry fee goes to the PDGA if the player is a member, if the player is not a PDGA member it is a flat $10 fee.

[keys]

I would like to see an event like this be PDGA sanctioned. If i'm going to commit a weekend to playing a serious tournament I want my rounds rated. I like how tournament data for PDGA events stays online forever. I can't pull up results for any non sanctioned tournaments I've played and it sucks. Unsanctioned tournaments are hard for me to take seriously.

[keith_shupp]

bullseye thanks for the input and to all who has been talking with me today. Okay lets say make it a PDGA event one weekend. that seems to please the players who play in the Oregon series and I will run this by some of the players who dont read the forum. Some of you also brought up having series but the main issue with that is it would have to be for Oregon players only to be able to do a fair point system. Also its makes it harder for anyone person who would want to run a state event because of all the added work to do the points.

I have been keeping a log going so far 7 people for pdga and 14 for non - pdga and 7 people for a series and 14 for one weekend event. some players dont get on the forum let alone even have a computer so keep this in mind.

Im truly serious about getting this right for all the Oregon players not just one side because we have alot of different players in this state and we all should see both sides of the coin before we take one side or another. This is why I started this thread to see what we can come up with because we need a great state disc golf championship. I AM willing to help and I have two sponsors that want to help in a big way and they our reading this thread also so please keep that in mind when you are posting. My other thought and this is one that I have had for years is to have this event open to all disc golf venders to set up booths no matter what they sell for the sport. Its nice to have several vendors to pick from not just one or two plus not every vendor sells the same stuff. Plus this event would be good for ANY groups or people running tournaments to do surveys or advertise for up coming events or even the next year. so keep it coming alot of good input so far and I hope to see what some older players think like that old dog LANCE Redfern or Bruce Sission.

["Over the Hill" Bob]

Originally Posted by keith_shupp

Over the hill Bob thanks for the input alot you said makes sense but having a series is not it. a state championship is one event and all types of players from around the state should compete for the title. they should not have to play in series to have the right to compete for the state title. the state championship should be who is the best player to show up and win that weekend. Anyone can win any given weekend but why have a series and still play that one weekend to see who the best. Also by not having a series you will have more players in the pool because some players cant play every event or even some events to make it a series so why should those players been turned away from having a shot at the state finals.

Keith, we really disagree on the series vs a single event idea. If we should choose to make it a single event, as you suggest, then we have the problem solved already. This weekend is the Calapooia Classic and the winner of that is then the Oregon State Champion. Done deal! Right?

PDGA or Non-PDGA? Include my vote for PDGA Sanctioned. It's a crazy world we live in these days and if I were to be in any way involved with working on this event (not saying I am), I would not do it without covering my arse with PDGA sanctioning and Insurance.

Bob

[Scott]

Keith, There is no way that anyone can have an event that will make everyone happy.
But the fact that these discussions are even taking place is a step in the right direction.

[Uhlman]

Originally Posted by Scott

Keith, There is no way that anyone can have an event that will make everyone happy.
But the fact that these discussions are even taking place is a step in the right direction.

I agree you can't make every one happy. however you can make it so every one has a great time and goes away feeling that who ever wins the title won the title. I believe we started playing this game because it was fun.

[keith_shupp]

Bob trust me I get what you are saying if you were to call that event the state championships and advertise it that way thats great but its not so it does not work.WE dont need the PDGA to cover our ass why would you say you need your ass covered by them. depending on were the event is you might need the insurance but besides that what else do you need them to cover your ass on. are you worried about points or maybe your players rating that means nothing for a state championship so what else.

["Over the Hill" Bob]

Originally Posted by keith_shupp

Bob trust me I get what you are saying if you were to call that event the state championships and advertise it that way thats great but its not so it does not work.WE dont need the PDGA to cover our ass why would you say you need your ass covered by them. depending on were the event is you might need the insurance but besides that what else do you need them to cover your ass on. are you worried about points or maybe your players rating that means nothing for a state championship so what else.

Ok, maybe if you have the event at the "right" park, you wouldn't need extra insurance. As for protecting my rating? I'll put my 753 PDGA rating on the line anywhere, any place, any time.

Why so anti PDGA Keith? It's already been pointed out that it really isn't a finacial burden. You've started a great discussion but seem to have already made up your mind that it HAS to be a 1 day event AND that it HAS to be non-PDGA.

Bob

[keith_shupp]

Originally Posted by "Over the Hill" Bob

Ok, maybe if you have the event at the "right" park, you wouldn't need extra insurance. As for protecting my rating? I'll put my 753 PDGA rating on the line anywhere, any place, any time.

Why so anti PDGA Keith? It's already been pointed out that it really isn't a finacial burden. You've started a great discussion but seem to have already made up your mind that it HAS to be a 1 day event AND that it HAS to be non-PDGA.

Bob

sorry Bob Im saying number one a two day event not one day and yes that it being a Pdga event will cost more money its $3 for paid members and $10 dollars non memebers so if you had say 100 players or more that much money would be about $700 to $800 dollars for that much money you could buy that course a million dollar insurance policy. thats what it cost us for policy for Sea-tac when I lived up there and that was for the whole year. Im not anti Pdga and this is my problem with it being a PDGA event is Oregon money goes out to them and what do we get in return (thats if we dont need the insurance) we could use that money for the event or return it to the home course for up keep or even a insurance policy that would cover any event all year long. I have always looked at the money side of it since I have raised over 100,000 for putting in courses and event donation. If the event is the Oregon state championships and you dont need points or players rating or insurance than why make it pdga and send that money away.plus Im not the only person who thinks this way so please see were im coming from and dont make it seem as anti pdga because I always think oregon first thats why we have so many courses to choose from.

[Sean Phillips]

1 vote for a single two day event.

[KenGilmore]

Another vote for a single, two day PDGA sanctioned event.

For those that are a fan of a series determining the state champion, a series is not used to determine the US Champion, the Worlds Champion, the European Champion, etc, etc.

[keith_shupp]

since it is out there you guys or gals please give me more input about why it should be a PDGA event since some of you want it to be one. Like I said before lets hear all sides of the coin nothing is in stone. I had one person that does not get on the forum say why should I pay $10 and a paid member only pays $3 to play in the event because it would cost a non member more. That is one thing that was brought up by him I did not even catch that till he brought it up.

I have been on the phone and the forum almost all day trying to work this out so keep the ideals coming.