Stance behind your MINI or Disc

[sk8architecture]

I couldn't find this anywhere here or PDGA so I'll ask it now, because it came up the other day with differing answers. I attached a crude sketch to help explain things.
Rule 803.04(1) Have at least one supporting point that is in contact with the playing surface on the line
of play and within 30 centimeters directly behind the marker disc

So figure A I can argue that I am behind the marker 30cm....but is it "directly".

Figure B I'm directly behind the marker.

Figure C As described to me that there is a centerline thru the marker in which you have to behind.

I know it doesn't seem much but in the case of leaving your disc as a marker and your stuck behind some trees a few inches means alot.

Side note I noticed that they gave back the rule in allowing the use of a towel for kneeling on as "relief from an abrasive surface."

[zippyboy]

To me, the center line (figure C) would make the most sense. Otherwise, why would you ever use a mini as a marker when in a tight spot? If figure B was the rule, using a full size disc as your marker would get you a few extra inches one way or the other.

Please note, this is only my personal observation. I have no clue what the actual rule(s) is pertaining to this situation. However, I gladly await a more qualified response.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by sk8architecture

I couldn't find this anywhere here or PDGA so I'll ask it now, because it came up the other day with differing answers. I attached a crude sketch to help explain things.
Rule 803.04(1) Have at least one supporting point that is in contact with the playing surface on the line
of play and within 30 centimeters directly behind the marker disc

So figure A I can argue that I am behind the marker 30cm....but is it "directly".

Figure B I'm directly behind the marker.

Figure C As described to me that there is a centerline thru the marker in which you have to behind.

I know it doesn't seem much but in the case of leaving your disc as a marker and your stuck behind some trees a few inches means alot.

Side note I noticed that they gave back the rule in allowing the use of a towel for kneeling on as "relief from an abrasive surface."

Funny you should bring this up, because I just decided to re-read the rule book today and just finished reading section 800 (definitions):

Line of Play: The imaginary line on the playing surface extending from the center of the target through the center of the marker disc and beyond. This line has no thickness; therefore one support point must be directly behind the center of the marker.

Based on that, and the word "directly", I'd say that drawing C depicts the correct stance.

[Wog]

Page 24 in summary of changes:

Clarifed that a line has no thickness
under “Line of Play”. This means that a
player’s support point must be directly
behind the center of the marker,
regardless of the size of the marker.

Defined under Lie: in section 800. Definitions

Line of Play: The imaginary line on the
playing surface extending from the center of
the target through the center of the marker
disc and beyond. This line has no thickness;
therefore one support point must be
directly behind the center of the marker.

[Wog]

Dang you guys are fast!

[Tim]

I just moved this to the PDGA section b/c this seems to be the place for such a discussion.

[Flash]

Originally Posted by sk8architecture

I couldn't find this anywhere here or PDGA so I'll ask it now, because it came up the other day with differing answers. I attached a crude sketch to help explain things.
Rule 803.04(1) Have at least one supporting point that is in contact with the playing surface on the line
of play and within 30 centimeters directly behind the marker disc

So figure A I can argue that I am behind the marker 30cm....but is it "directly".

Figure B I'm directly behind the marker.

Figure C As described to me that there is a centerline thru the marker in which you have to behind.

I know it doesn't seem much but in the case of leaving your disc as a marker and your stuck behind some trees a few inches means alot.

Side note I noticed that they gave back the rule in allowing the use of a towel for kneeling on as "relief from an abrasive surface."

The center line is where your point of contact needs to be, that center line should be inline with the pole of the basket. If the center line was not used why even mark your disc, you could gain 11 cm from the average driver and it is a lot wider as well. So to differentiate between any possible width differences in the marker discs or thrown disc, center line is used to determine proper supporting point placement.

Two of the most common mistakes I see people do is when they are behind a tree or object and they are throwing with their back to the target they will 1. Lift up their point of contact as they throw prior to the disc being released. 2. They will lift their center line supporting point off the ground but not their entire supporting point.

Example: putting your heel on the center line but go up on your toes when you throw, which technically is a foot fault, because the toes are not on the center line but given the average male foot about 10 inches from the center line.

[Adam Schneider]

Where does the 30cm extend back from? From the "front" of where your disc landed (i.e., the point closest to the pin), or from the center of the disc?

[Chuck Kennedy]

Note: When you haven't crossed the mando line, the line of play is at the mando object if the line of play to the basket does not cross the good side of the mando line. The other issue is on wooded doglegs. If you are still on the first leg, you don't stand behind your mini in the direction of the open fairway to the dogleg, you stand on the line of play to the basket. That might mean you stand beside your mini in reference to the direction you're throwing.

[Flash]

Originally Posted by Adam Schneider

Where does the 30cm extend back from? From the "front" of where your disc landed (i.e., the point closest to the pin), or from the center of the disc?

803.04 Stance, Subsequent to Teeing Off
A. When the disc is released, a player must:
(1) Have at least one supporting point that is in contact with the playing surface on the line
of play and within 30 centimeters directly behind the marker disc (except as specified in
803.04 E); and,
(2) have no supporting point contact with the marker disc or any object closer to the hole
than the rear edge of the marker disc; and,
(3) have all of his or her supporting points in-bounds.

803.04 E. If a large solid obstacle prevents a player from taking a legal stance within 30 centimeters
directly behind the marker disc, the player shall take his or her stance immediately
behind that obstacle on the line of play. The player must comply with all the provisions of
803.04 A other than being within 30 centimeters directly behind the marker disc.

[Chuck Kennedy]

It extends 30cm back from the back rim of the previously thown disc if that's what you left on the ground as your marker.

[SMOKIN JOE]

center line is the key, and it relavent to the pole not were you are throwing,see this all time were people use the egde of the disc still on the ground as there stance point, you need to be at center of disc not on side edge, the prevoius point on lifting when shooting backwards happens alot too,try to teach rookies down here that one alot,

[Adam Schneider]

Originally Posted by Chuck Kennedy

It extends 30cm back from the back rim of the previously thown disc if that's what you left on the ground as your marker.

So does that mean, when putting, that you must stand BEHIND where the back edge of your disc landed?

[all2common]

Originally Posted by Flash

803.04 Stance, Subsequent to Teeing Off
A. When the disc is released, a player must:
(1) Have at least one supporting point that is in contact with the playing surface on the line
of play and within 30 centimeters directly behind the marker disc (except as specified in
803.04 E); and,
(2) have no supporting point contact with the marker disc or any object closer to the hole
than the rear edge of the marker disc; and,
(3) have all of his or her supporting points in-bounds.

803.04 E. If a large solid obstacle prevents a player from taking a legal stance within 30 centimeters
directly behind the marker disc, the player shall take his or her stance immediately
behind that obstacle on the line of play. The player must comply with all the provisions of
803.04 A other than being within 30 centimeters directly behind the marker disc.

I watched two Pro Masters, on the same card, throw from out of bounds at HooDoo this past weekend. Their disc was barely in - this was on the island green of Hayrick Elevator - and they were standing out.

They should have taken their meter in. Now is it legal (read: is it my duty) for me, as a spectator, to call them out?

[Chuck Kennedy]

Originally Posted by all2common

I watched two Pro Masters, on the same card, throw from out of bounds at HooDoo this past weekend. Their disc was barely in - this was on the island green of Hayrick Elevator - and they were standing out.

They should have taken their meter in. Now is it legal (read: is it my duty) for me, as a spectator, to call them out?

If you are a certified official, then yes. Otherwise, notify an official or another player in their group to make the call.

[Chuck Kennedy]

Originally Posted by Adam Schneider

So does that mean, when putting, that you must stand BEHIND where the back edge of your disc landed?

Some supporting point must be on the line of play thru the middle of the disc within 30cm of that back edge behind the disc at the time your throw is released. It could be a hand or elbow touching the playing surface on that line.