Barsby's putt--falling or no? - PDGA

Dr. Zaius · #1 June 17th, 2009, 07:20 PM

[Mod's Edit: discussion in this thread relates to the video found here.]

i'm thinking you caught barsby with a falling putt that he pulled off with a quick wave.

pretty close at least. 6:55 mark

snap7times · #2 June 17th, 2009, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Zaius

i'm thinking you caught barsby with a falling putt that he pulled off with a quick wave.

pretty close at least. 6:55 mark

That in no way is a falling putt, he picks up the mini before even moving forward. You try doing that, pretty easy.

TYVEK · #3 June 18th, 2009, 06:49 AM

in my opinion he did not show FULL control of balance. it doesnt really matter. it looked as though his weight was carrying him forward even as he reached down to pick up his mini. it could be called a falling putt by a really really uptight person.

snap7times · #4 June 18th, 2009, 08:14 AM

Honestly, you will see at least 50 examples worse than this example at any major tournament per round. If you want to apply the same principles, then the putt on hole 3 was a falling putt too. But it is not... and who is to say that it is not two seperate motions in that putt in discussion. The putt itself, and the "knowing you made the putt and you may now go get it" while picking up the mini combined forced the forward motion seperate from the putting motion. I could get all technical on human anatomy but don't want confuse anyone

If anyone wants to challenge this concept, test it yourself, try to make a 20-25 foot putt and pick up the mini and move forward in one cognitive general motor movement without seperating the movements or thoughts at all, which would justify falling putt...
An example for those lazy people who don't want to test it out. In baseball, a first baseman has to reach out to catch the ball for the out, as he catches the ball, while still tagging the base, moving off the bag, he reaches to get the ball to make a throw home, while pulling the ball out, he fumbles the ball and drops it... What is the result of the play? *Test test test*

Scott · #5 June 18th, 2009, 08:24 AM

All you have to do to avoid a falling putt is "show balance", right? It takes balance to bend over and pick up a mini, right?

Sam · #6 June 18th, 2009, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TYVEK

in my opinion he did not show FULL control of balance. it doesnt really matter. it looked as though his weight was carrying him forward even as he reached down to pick up his mini. it could be called a falling putt by a really really uptight person.

I was looking for a way to argue Brody's YouTube post but I just can't. Tyvek is right here. He did not show FULL control of balance and it could have been called a falling putt by an uptight person. Would it have been seconded? And... would it have mattered? It didn't look like that tough of a putt for him and it was in the Final 9, so...

Dr. Zaius · #7 June 18th, 2009, 10:30 AM

would barsby of gotten away with that on the lead card at the USDGC?

does it even matter cause this wasn't the USDGC's and he was dominating anyways?

would you call someone who had just recently won an NT on a falling putt at a b tier in nowhere'sville, Wa anyways?

is that shirt he's wearing for real?

snap7times · #8 June 18th, 2009, 11:04 AM

In my closer examination and slow playing the video, there is a slight transition of movements from acknowledging the successful putt, pausing-shows balance, and going into picking up the mini which results in moving forward because while picking up the mini, the shift of weight goes forward from picking up the mini, not a continous movement of the putt itself.
The act of picking up a mini before moving forward, i would consider control of balance. I just tested this out on my basket with mini and putter. I was not able to successfully make a falling putt and pick up my mini most of the time, when I was able to get my mini while making a falling putt, it was obvious and looked desperate.
When imitating the exact movement and stance as Barsby, I felt in full control of my stance and felt the exact shift in movements while picking up the mini that leads me to lean forward, seperate from the putting movement. Trust me, test it out, you will feel in control of your balance if you imitate the video. Its the reaching down really low that pushes you foward, you can easily lean foward without reaching down and come back up easily on flat grond... PROVE ME WRONG...

As for the attire that Barsby wears, I love the guy, but yes, I encourage TD's to enforce the attire guidelines.

Sam · #9 June 18th, 2009, 11:10 AM

You are not getting it, Nate. There has to be a display of FULL balance . There wasn't. He could blame it on picking up the mini but the fact of the matter is that that is an excuse and doesn't negate the fact that the letter of the rule was violated.

Darr · #10 June 18th, 2009, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam

You are not getting it, Nate. There has to be a display of FULL balance . There wasn't. He could blame it on picking up the mini but the fact of the matter is that that is an excuse and doesn't negate the fact that the letter of the rule was violated.

That is not a falling putt. It's more of a thrash metal putt

snap7times · #11 June 18th, 2009, 12:36 PM

Nate? I'm snap...

My point I tried to make is that the act of picking up the mini is a display of balance it itself. You cannot pick up the mini while already moving forward and if you are able to get your mini while moving forward, it would look a heck lot different than what is seen in the video, have you gotten off your axx and tried it yet? Am I the only person on here who actually put this to a physical test before BSING on a forum and hiding behind a keyboard and a lethargic axx?

Yes Sammy, I saw your celluite at BSF...

Sam · #12 June 18th, 2009, 12:39 PM

Please tell me at what point during the flailing of arms and then the off-balanced reaching down to pick up his mini did Barsby exhibit FULL balance.

Answer: At no point did Barsby show FULL balance.

Thanks.

snap7times · #13 June 18th, 2009, 01:04 PM

Damn lazy axx, get up, copy his motions, you will find that once you reach a certain point while reaching for the mini, your body shifts balance creating the flailing arms act which you claim happens before reaching down. Watching closely to the video, you see, once he reaches down past a certain point, is where the forward motion and apparent loss of balance occurs, not before that certain point. If not for the mini, he could have easily gone back to two feet. TEST it before your next post...

Tim · #14 June 18th, 2009, 01:15 PM

Anybody want to discuss pennies on trees?

Sam · #15 June 18th, 2009, 01:31 PM

No, Nate. You're not getting it. You can look at it in slow-mo all you want but that is not really going to help you. You can also practice it all you want but that will not stop the fact that the dude was clearly off-balance throughout the entire motion and only regained his balance as he picked up his disc and moved past his mark. Anyway, it still could have been called and seconded and would have resulted in the putt being considered a falling putt.

Sheesh... do you have money on this or something?

NWDiscer · #16 June 18th, 2009, 01:40 PM

ehhh i say there is a small delay before going forward but at worst it's a "tie goes to the runner" situation plus no one in the group calls it so.....

NWDiscer · #17 June 18th, 2009, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam

but that will not stop the fact that the dude was clearly off-balance throughout the entire motion and only regained his balance as he picked up his disc and moved past his mark.

and his disc is at rest at this point of the putt.......

snap7times · #18 June 18th, 2009, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam

No, Nate. You're not getting it. You can look at it in slow-mo all you want but that is not really going to help you. You can also practice it all you want but that will not stop the fact that the dude was clearly off-balance throughout the entire motion and only regained his balance as he picked up his disc and moved past his mark. Anyway, it still could have been called and seconded and would have resulted in the putt being considered a falling putt.

Sheesh... do you have money on this or something?

He does a very similar motion on his putt on hole 3 and his first step in showing full control of balance is a step past the mark, falling putt?

Sam · #19 June 18th, 2009, 02:19 PM

Yeah... still don't think you are getting it. Full control of balance has to happen behind the mark - not in front of it. If he did it on hole 3, that would be a falling putt as well, yes.

snap7times · #20 June 18th, 2009, 02:35 PM

Apparently in most people's comments and opinions, two feet standing up behind the mark is definied as full control and one leg is not... PDGA needs to elaborate on this ruling, too much grey area.

Edit: After looking through some more videos online that Barsby is in, this is his putting form and the majority of his "full control of balance" steps are ahead of the mark and no one has said anything since...