Discmosis

[all2common]

Originally Posted by Bullseye

Are you suggesting you want a partner that swings both ways? Hmmm.

Yes. Always keep your options open.

[jevon]

Originally Posted by kel

let's put this sucker to the test. . . those that buy discmosis vs. those that don't in a free for all doubles death match. I would even add that the losers of said match(es) might learn something during the process, but then that would clearly be pre-selecting a favorite.

Let's see here. The majority of those that support Discmosis appear to be Advanced(too scared to move up to Pro) and Pro. The majority of people that think it isn't all it's cracked up to be seem to be of the Rec/Int crowd. I wonder who will win?

Speaking for myself, actually practicing and not hitting the first damn tree(or second or third or...) on the hole would do more for my game then watching someone else. Until that happens what is the point of watching someone throw some amazing shot? How is watching Climo throw a TeeBird 400' going to help me when I am happy with a 300 footer?

For anyone that would like to prove me wrong, I will be at Pier at 8am on Sunday, with one or two friends of similar skill level. My PB there is +8. If I do better than that I will succumb to the peer pressure and become a believer. Or I will just blame it on the hangover I am planning on having...

[papatart]

While never thinking of it as something accidentally or unintentionally absorbed, the idea of playing with better people to improve your game is one that I can go along with.

As a raw beginner, I would drive hours in different directions each week to play with Phil Arthur (The Natural) north of Chicago and Scott Martin (The greatest lefty ever) in Peoria. I was nowhere near their equal and would always offer up a "play you for lunch/dinner" so that they would play and I encouraged them to give me their best whooping ever. Along with that, I got to analyze their throwing, lines and mental approach to the course. Being adept at body control, I was able to adapt to the top pros' styles and move from Novice to Pro in about 1 year (which is tough in the Midwest). The best compliment I ever received was from Scott Martin who caught a throw of mine out of the corner of his eye and made him turn quickly. I asked if there was something wrong and he said "No, it's just that you look just like Phil Arthur when you throw." Mission almost accomplished in that I did pick up his form but due to my age could never quite generate the speed for his distance.

Yep, playing with better people will help your game. The more they will help you, the more you will be able to learn and the quicker you will learn. There are better teachers than others as many players have no idea how they throw that far. Also, once they get to a certain point, they forget what the learning process was for them so they may not be able to give timely suggestions. That being said, any input is always worth listening to, just make sure to weed through it to pick out the pearls that apply to you.

Lastly, I am proud to say that the locals that I play with out at Dalaiwood are always picking my brain and we play a ton together. These regulars have all exceeded the other locals in their progress and it is wonderful to see that they will probably all soon be beating me. So help where you can and learn when you can, it just makes it more fun!

Later,
Scott Papa

[snap7times]

Originally Posted by jevon

Speaking for myself, actually practicing and not hitting the first damn tree(or second or third or...) on the hole would do more for my game then watching someone else. Until that happens what is the point of watching someone throw some amazing shot? How is watching Climo throw a TeeBird 400' going to help me when I am happy with a 300 footer?

Watching what a pro can do with a control disc might make you realize that you need to play with a disc you are comfortable with rather than hurl the disc you can throw the farthest. And you might pick up a few pointers on throwing and stance form etc.. There are quite a bit of players who's form is a far cry from anything normal and realizing that they need a total makeover on their form is helpful...

[REDFIVE]

I read most of the first page of this nonsence and had to chime in. I am a 995 rated player and up in washington it is hard to find players that can push my game. I play most of my rounds with mike cain who just cracked 1000 with the last update. We push each other to the point thar every stroke counts. I have gotten so much better because of the competition with a player that is better than I am. When it comes to tourney time I am used to having the focus that I need to execute each shot. Having two young children it is hard for me to play as many tournaments as I would like but playing with a player that pushes me in what would be a casual round keeps me sharp.

I played a money round recently with another local pro and it just wasn't the same. I had a 6 stroke lead after 8 holes and at that point my focus and drive to put a complete round together was gone because I had already won. I wasn't playing all that well but my bad shots didn't matter because my competition was playing even worse. I didn't have to improve because my shots didny matter.

Having someone to push me helps me with the mental side of the game. We are also able to talk about shots and why we did what. There have been so many times that I have been putting to the right side or releasing my drives a bit early and at the point of frustration I can ask him to watch me and let me know what I am doing wrong. It usually takes one shot to get an answer then on the next shot or putt I apply what was said and presto problem solved.

It is very dumb to think that playing with people that are better than you will not make you better. If you wanted to be an architect would it benefit you to take some classes and pick the brain of someone that has many years of experience? I believe it would. If you do not. Then you can continue to limit yourself to what you think is the best you can do, good luck with that.

*****This being said I have been giving lessons and the info can be found in the meet to play golf section!***** yeahyah!

[Sam]

Holy crap! Support!

Papa, I found your articles in the instructional section of discgolfer well written and helpful. Thanks for doing what you do.

[papatart]

Originally Posted by Sam

Holy crap! Support!

Papa, I found your articles in the instructional section of discgolfer well written and helpful. Thanks for doing what you do.

Thanks Sam. It is really great to work with a bunch of the top pros in the world and try to get them to let everyone in on how they have accomplished what they have. The next issue is on grip and Oregon's (via Ohio) own Avery Jenkins wrote a great piece to help with both backhand and forehand grips. I hope to continue to work with him as his insight and teaching skills seem to match up with his course prowess. Add to that some advice from Carlton Howard, Dave Greenwell and yours truly and I think the article will have something for everyone.

In the meantime, checkout: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4spUSMi6xm0 to see a basic putting clinic video that was just put up by the good folks at Discraft. Who is that handsome devil in the video?

Later,
Scott Papa

[jevon]

Originally Posted by snap7times

Watching what a pro can do with a control disc might make you realize that you need to play with a disc you are comfortable with rather than hurl the disc you can throw the farthest.

Yeah, that is why I normally only use 3 molds. TeeBird, Buzzz(FLX and Cryztal, both with DDGA Hawk Relay stamps), and a Warlock. I can actually throw the TeeBird as far as any other disc. I need to give Mr. Wilson thanks for that advice. It has shaved a couple strokes off my average.

Originally Posted by REDFIVE

It is very dumb to think that playing with people that are better than you will not make you better. If you wanted to be an architect would it benefit you to take some classes and pick the brain of someone that has many years of experience? I believe it would.

I have to take issue with this. Since you haven't read the entire thread and you don't know the background let me fill you in(not meant to sound as pissy as it reads). It pretty much started with people saying you should play up in a tournament and you are only holding yourself back if you don't. This comment is directed more toward people that have been playing for a few years but stuck in the <900 or even <850 range. If a lower division is offered then guys are looked down upon for choosing one that they would have better competition in from their peers, rather than knowing they would finish in the bottom of the division above them. Then it morphed into Discmosis and speaking for myself, while there is validity to it, it is not a given. Lets face it. Some of us just can't get it right. Sure, if I spent an hour at it everyday plus fit in a few rounds throughout the week, I could probably figure it out. I've played with higher rated players and watched them throw. Hell, I've lost MANY dolla dolla bills yo to friends regardless of how many strokes they've given me. I'm gonna continue to contribute to their lunch money and I'm fine with that.

Originally Posted by REDFIVE

If you do not. Then you can continue to limit yourself to what you think is the best you can do, good luck with that.

I've been drinking so I'm gonna leave this one alone... but some of us are ok with the size of our penis. Seriously? Good luck with that? Oops. I was gonna leave it alone.

If someone enjoys playing MA3 or MA4 just be happy that they are playing. Don't hassle them and tell them to move up. Some people just can't get the disc to do what they want to all the time.

T: Release it flat and 10 feet lower.
S: That's what I was trying to do!

T: Straight across your chest with only 80% power.
S: That's what I was trying to do!

T: You turned your wrist over on that one.
S: Well no s**t Sherlock!

I'm only speaking for myself, but I got defensive about the term. Not due to it's meaning, but due to it's origins. YES, practicing with better players CAN make you better. BUT if I were to play a tournament I will not be bullied into playing higher than my rating dictates. I'm done ranting and I'm done with this subject.

[REDFIVE]

I was unaware this was about playing above your rating in tourneys so that is not what I was talking about.

I do strive to increase the length of my putt and the gurth of my drive.

Play where you feel comfortable but strive to find players that are better than you in casual practice rounds and pick their brains. If you have won 2 of your last 5 tourneys and finished top 3 in all of them and you have the chance move up, If you are in the last couple places that payout or just missing the cut keep at it. Play where you are competitive and going to feel comfortable.


Mike Leslie...
Played for one year in AM2, skipped ADV, a couple seasons of pro later he is one of the best players in the area. Coincidence?

[Sam]

Jevon, it started about one person in particular who I feel wants to try tournament play and excell at it. I encouraged him to play intermediate at a smaller tournament and rec at a larger one. I still do not think that that is a bad idea for someone of that particular person's skills and the length of time they have been playing. He chose differently (I think) but that issue was done a while ago.

Yes, the thread morphed into the general idea of playing with better players but I qualified my position by saying that you are only going to play with better players for the first round of a tournament and then end up with players closer to your skills for the rest.

I maintain the position that just watching better players, let alone getting advice from them after you have thrown, will make you a better player. Not yet? Keep watching and asking for criticism.

[Ol' Bob]

Originally Posted by REDFIVE

I do strive to increase the length of my putt and the gurth of my drive.

[zippyboy]

Originally Posted by Sam

Jevon, it started about one person in particular who I feel wants to try tournament play and excell at it. I encouraged him to play intermediate at a smaller tournament and rec at a larger one. I still do not think that that is a bad idea for someone of that particular person's skills and the length of time they have been playing. He chose differently (I think) but that issue was done a while ago.

If this was about my choice, I still haven't signed up for the Monkey yet, as we are trying to figure out how to deal with a possible schedule conflict Saturday night. I do know that I am signed up for the RCO, but that the lowest division was Intermediate. Therefore, I may end up playing Rec at the Monkey, just to see which division I should be playing in, overall.

If that comment wasn't regarding my decision, nevermind.

["Over the Hill" Bob]

Ok, here,s my story, and I'm sticking to it. I've been playing now for two years. I have played two years with nothing but better players. No choice, everyone is a better player than me. I HAVE gotten better! Better for playing with better players, or better for playing for two years? I don't think that it has as much to with "Discmosis" as it has to do with practice and playing more. I'll say that 99% of the time playing with better players is just that, playing with better players. The 1% that has made a difference is when a player notices something I'm doing wrong or could improve on and offers advice. Most of the time when I ask, I'm told, "oh, just go to a field and work on it". Advice, or rather GOOD advice is not forthcoming. Jason McGrew couldn't take it anymore and pulled me out on the course at Hyzer Pines last year and spent quality time with me working on throwing flat, keeping the nose down, and that changed my game dramatically. Then it was Mike Phillips, who offered me the advice that I was not snapping the disc at release but rather throwing it. Again, I saw improvement. Then it was Jeff Larson that noticed the dip in my drive and gave me advice how to get the dip out of my swing. This all came after playing for over a year and with many many much better players. For "Discmosis" to work you need several components:

1......Better players that will play with you.
2......Better players willing to offer advice
3.....Practice, practice, practice.

Bob

[Sam]

No. That is simply not the case, Bob. Simply watching better players will make you a better player if you allow yourself to store what you have seen for later processing and learn to play it back in the right way.

To wit...

Imagery is a very deep, focused type of mental practice. Researchers know that some athletes are able to imitate the actions of others because their minds take mental snapshots of the activities, and then they use these mental pictures as models for their performance. Does this work in recreational sports as well as competitive situations? The answer is definitely yes - and here is why.

Essentially, imagery is the process of receiving information through all of our senses from the external environment. However, images can also be generated as information from our own memories, so that we create our own internal environments or personally enhanced images. Thus, the combination of these two environments, both the imagined and the real-life ones, has a very powerful effect on our nervous systems. Certainly, in most sports, we take in both internal environment and the intensity of the external environment, as well.

You can conceptualize the imagery process by thinking about your home video player. Your brain acts as its own unique VCR unit, scanning for images and sensory input before they are collected and shuttled onto your mental picture screen. Unlike the VCR hardware from the department store, your internal equipment - when trained and used properly - will recall feelings, sounds and smells as well as visual images with ease.

The use of imagery is not a magic bullet but a technique that is used by athletes with great success, frequently and often. As most athletes explain it, imagery is a technique that programs the human mind to respond in a certain way in certain situations. All of us, whether recreational or elite-level athletes, can use imagery to improve our performance. As 1994 Olympic silver-medal skier Picabo Street says, "It would be extremely difficult to race downhill at 73 miles per hour without a mental blueprint of very specific images of the course." And, as many Olympians note, to use the psychological skill of imagery and use it correctly, you must practice it in a systematic way.

Same book mentioned before.

[Eric Olson]

Discmosis = true.

This coming from a guy who is not even into playing tourneys. Think about this example:

Pier Park hole 14 on the backhand anny route. I've played Pier Park countless times. Played it for years. Explored every route possible on this hole for a RHBH. At one time in the not too distant past, I wasn't hitting the line the way I think I should be on the anny route. One day I play the course with a golfer I don't play with normally, who happens to be fairly skilled. I don't even remember anymore who it was but that's not important. Anyway, just watching his footwork and runup angles was like a lightbulb going off in my head. I emulated this next time I played the hole and since then I've increased my percentage of having a look at a deuce in the short placement by an immeasurable amount.

That is just one example of anecdotal evidence. Most of us could go on with stories just like this for hours. You learn things by watching people do them well.