SeaTac Hierarchy

[ChUcK]

What's the story with SeaTac Park? Who is in control of the course?

The reason I ask is this- summer school looks like a bust this year, so I will find myself with loads of free time on my hands. I thought it might be nice to spend my mornings at the park in a constant maintenance effort.

So... I need to know who is the head honcho at this time so I can discuss various projects and possibilities of course beautification and cleanup. I have no intention of altering the play of any holes, I'm more interested in removing most of the blackberries and scotch broom from the course, and I'd like some direction by the responsible authorities.

Should I just talk to Guy? Who is the dude that installed the kick-ass "next tee->" signs before CSI? I heard rumors about a transfer of basket rights from Herm to other people... Grossman's name comes up every now and then... What's the true state of the course right now?

Oh, and if anyone even mentions the Herm Disc Golf Club (pay attention to this eye-roll, it's gonna be a good one- ) with a straight face I will scratch the entire idea and spend my days at Terrace instead.

[Adam Schneider]

Surely the City Of SeaTac Parks & Rec department can get you in touch with the correct people: http://www.ci.seatac.wa.us/park/nsp.htm

[ChUcK]

Well, I just received a 3rd pm that mentioned the Herm DGC, so I guess my fate is sealed. Terrace Creek, here I come.

Is it standard for a single golfer to "own" the rights to a public DG course?

[Tim]

Originally Posted by ChUcK

Well, I just received a 3rd pm that mentioned the Herm DGC, so I guess my fate is sealed. Terrace Creek, here I come.

Is it standard for a single golfer to "own" the rights to a public DG course?

Heh, watch out for the "Seattle Disc Golf Player's Association" (aka Lowell DGC). Fortunately, Lowell's a little more accommodating when it comes to people wanting to help out to improve the course.

And no, I don't think it's standard for a single golfer to "own" a public course. Nor do I think it's standard for a single golfer to be a "club". Nor do I think it's standard for every course to be represented by separate "club". The way things have evolved in the Settle area though, that all seems to be the standard around here.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by ChUcK

Well, I just received a 3rd pm that mentioned the Herm DGC, so I guess my fate is sealed. Terrace Creek, here I come.

Is it standard for a single golfer to "own" the rights to a public DG course?

For us Oregonians, what's the deal with Herm?

[ChUcK]

I think only Jub and Guy know the whole story behind this guy. All I know is that whenever Seattlites talk about how effed up the DG scene is here, Herm's name inevitably comes up.

Yeah, I'm sure Lowell would have no problem with me working at Terrace... I would certainly clear any projects with him. Lord knows that new hole 13 could use some serious attention, starting with a new teepad location. 2.3 ft of runup don't quite cut it for me.

Edit: I just realized that the words "Herm", "Jub", and "Disc Golf" have all appeared in a single thread. Better move this one to the Purgatory section, quick!

[Scott]

Originally Posted by ChUcK

I think only Jub and Guy know the whole story behind this guy. All I know is that whenever Seattlites talk about how effed up the DG scene is here, Herm's name inevitably comes up.

Yeah, I'm sure Lowell would have no problem with me working at Terrace... I would certainly clear any projects with him. Lord knows that new hole 13 could use some serious attention, starting with a new teepad location. 2.3 ft of runup don't quite cut it for me.

Edit: I just realized that the words "Herm", "Jub", and "Disc Golf" have all appeared in a single thread. Better move this one to the Purgatory section, quick!

Yeah, I'll say that's f'd up. When a golfer selflessly offers his time and energy to improve a course that desperately needs it and cannot because somebody else "claimed it"?
WTF?!?
Seatac's loss is Terrace Creek's gain.

Good on you, Chuck. 90% (or more) of us would just choose to spend our free time golfing.

[ChUcK]

Originally Posted by Scott

Good on you, Chuck. 90% (or more) of us would just choose to spend our free time golfing.

Oh, there'll be plenty of golfing, too. Plus, I haven't done a damn thing yet. Congratulate me in September, once I've actually come through!

[Tim]

Originally Posted by Scott

For us Oregonians, what's the deal with Herm?

Yeah, like Chuck said, Jub and Guy would know the whole story. Herm was more active in the scene before I came to the area, and I don't see him much these days. He did come to Terrace dubs one night, got teamed up with a guy who wasn't very good, got pissed off about it, and vowed to never play Terrace dubs again, if that tells you anything.

The story on Herm and SeaTac, to the best of my knowledge, is that Herm designed and installed the course--for which he should definitely be commended. Baskets were donated for the course, and the course is set up as an agreement between the city and "Herm's Disc Golf Club". Herm apparently is good at pissing people off, and the relations between him and the head of the parks department are strained. As I understand it, Herm doesn't want anything happening to the course w/o his approval, and I guess he doesn't approve of people messing with "his" course. Apparently if someone buys all the baskets off him, he'd be willing to relinquish control.

[Gill]

Originally Posted by ChUcK

Yeah, I'm sure Lowell would have no problem with me working at Terrace... I would certainly clear any projects with him. Lord knows that new hole 13 could use some serious attention, starting with a new teepad location. 2.3 ft of runup don't quite cut it for me.

Chuck, I don't think this is any different from the way things are at Seatac. In order to provide the full story, one must mention "Herms DGC" so as to appreciate the evolution of the course from a one (or few) man show to what it is now... ummm, perhaps a one Guy show. In any event, a club arises to take care of a course - a different club for each course. This one just has an unfortunate name attached to it that implies ownership.

I think that's natural in any area for the regular ballers to stick around a particular course the majority of the time and be interested in tending to it. I could be wrong, Lord knows I haven't been in the DG scene for all that long. For Seatac, there's plenty of space to tend to and not many golfers who come out to work parties (I've seen Grossman, Rahn, Illg, Jub, and Guy at recent work parties - sorry if I missed others, and yet how many people play there or dog on the current state of the course?). I doubt Terrace is much different though - if I wanted to go work on that course I would certainly feel obligated to contact "and clear any projects with" whoever is the course contact/manager, i.e., Lowell.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by ChUcK

Oh, there'll be plenty of golfing, too. Plus, I haven't done a damn thing yet. Congratulate me in September, once I've actually come through!

I wouldn't expect anyone who bears such a striking resemblence to Honest Abe to back out of a promise.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Tim

Yeah, like Chuck said, Jub and Guy would know the whole story. Herm was more active in the scene before I came to the area, and I don't see him much these days. He did come to Terrace dubs one night, got teamed up with a guy who wasn't very good, got pissed off about it, and vowed to never play Terrace dubs again, if that tells you anything.

Sounds about right.

The story on Herm and SeaTac, to the best of my knowledge, is that Herm designed and installed the course--for which he should definitely be commended.

Well.. unless you don't like the course. Then he should be condemned.

I wish I had some land so I could throw a drive, mark the tee and then go to my disc and pace 20 feet to the new pin position. I would also "own" that course.

Baskets were donated for the course, and the course is set up as an agreement between the city and "Herm's Disc Golf Club". Herm apparently is good at pissing people off, and the relations between him and the head of the parks department are strained. As I understand it, Herm doesn't want anything happening to the course w/o his approval, and I guess he doesn't approve of people messing with "his" course. Apparently if someone buys all the baskets off him, he'd be willing to relinquish control.

Sounds like something I heard about Timber Park once...

When will people learn that once you donate something, it is no longer yours to do anything with? If I donate some money to UNICEF, do I get to dictate how they spend it and if I am not happy about what they decide they will just give it back to me?

On a side note... does anyone remember when Herm used to post? I mean... I just didn't think you could capture toothless yokel in a post but boy was I wrong...

[Tim]

Originally Posted by Gill

I think that's natural in any area for the regular ballers to stick around a particular course the majority of the time and be interested in tending to it. I could be wrong, Lord knows I haven't been in the DG scene for all that long. For Seatac, there's plenty of space to tend to and not many golfers who come out to work parties (I've seen Grossman, Rahn, Illg, Jub, and Guy at recent work parties - sorry if I missed others, and yet how many people play there or dog on the current state of the course?). I doubt Terrace is much different though - if I wanted to go work on that course I would certainly feel obligated to contact "and clear any projects with" whoever is the course contact/manager, i.e., Lowell.

I agree that it's natural for people to spend more time at a particular course, and therefore do more work there. I haven't been on the scene a long time either, but Seattle is the only place I've heard of that has a separate club for each course, though. More times than not, when I've been golfing with a Portland guy in a tourney or something, I've asked what his home course is, I'll get a funny look, and he'll reply something along the lines of "uhh...all of them?" I've said it before, but it still seems really strange that a city the size of Seattle doesn't have an actual unified club.

That being said though, I don't want to take away from what the course locals have done...we try to do what we can at Terrace, the North Parkers are doing a good job with the maintenance there, Lakewood is almost always looking good, and SeaTac has been in great shape (besides the emptied trash bags and poo-smearing.) I would like to come to some SeaTac work parties, but they always seem to happen when I'm busy with other things (usually regular work, without any party associated). And though I don't make my way out to the other courses like Arlington and Lake Stevens too much, it's obvious there been some locals taking care of things there. But anyway, just imagine what could be accomplished if all the golfers in the area who give a damn about course upkeep could come together for work parties at courses.

[Tim]

Originally Posted by Sam

Well.. unless you don't like the course. Then he should be condemned.

I wish I had some land so I could throw a drive, mark the tee and then go to my disc and pace 20 feet to the new pin position. I would also "own" that course.

hahaha, for some reason I didn't think you'd ever played SeaTac, Sam. I've heard complaints about some of the design before, but I think they're all pretty well designed holes. The only one that I give exception to would be 14 (the one with the rock wall next to the tee), and that's just because it's always a crapshoot off the tee. You can aim for a certain part of the "fairway", but there's no real safe way to play. Instead of risk/reward, it's pretty much all risk. Besides that though, they're all fair holes, IMO, though of course, some should definitely not be considered par 3s.

Originally Posted by Sam

...but boy was I wrong...

[LJ Jubner]

Originally Posted by Tim

hahaha, for some reason I didn't think you'd ever played SeaTac, Sam. I've heard complaints about some of the design before, but I think they're all pretty well designed holes. The only one that I give exception to would be 14 (the one with the rock wall next to the tee), and that's just because it's always a crap shoot off the tee. You can aim for a certain part of the "fairway", but there's no real safe way to play. Instead of risk/reward, it's pretty much all risk.

Several holes at the Tac require players to throw a placement shot off the box then be aggressive on their second. 14,16,17,18 That is unless you can overpower them like Dave's shot on 17.

On 14 try throwing hyzer off the box. It opens up the hole


Safe at Seatac. I ahve spent more then 200+ hrs there over the years and have never once felt unsafe. Most everyone has a cell Keep the 91 always ready

[Tim]

Originally Posted by LJ Jubner

On 14 try throwing hyzer off the box. It opens up the hole

To where? Behind the "fence" of trees? If you make it past the fence, there are some lines to be had, but being a foot or two in any direction can rule those lines out. Some shots might yield a better chance of having a line than others, but it's always a gamble--you can never really be sure if you had a good shot or not until you get to your disc.

[LJ Jubner]

Actually you throw it towards the 13 Tee and try to end up by the black man hole cover on the path. Next time we are there I will show you.

[TreeLove]

How about removing a few trees from that grove, in order to create a few legitimate lines for 2nd shots, and creating actual desirable landing areas to drive for? Whoops, did I say a bad word? OK, MOVE the trees, or better yet, take out some invasive species, plant some native species somewhere else!

[Pizzel]

Originally Posted by TreeLove

How about removing a few trees from that grove, in order to create a few legitimate lines for 2nd shots, and creating actual desirable landing areas to drive for? Whoops, did I say a bad word? OK, MOVE the trees, or better yet, take out some invasive species, plant some native species somewhere else!

Here, here. I loves me some Seatac, but hole 14 is just dumb........about as dumb as a Superclass tourney.........RIPT.......Three Headed Monster.......the woods holes at Bryant Park......

[barbikes]

Whoa boys, Whoa!
I gotta speak up for my homeys at the 'Tac. Hole 14 is awesome as it is. Lots of us regulars would hate to see it changed in any way. When I first saw this thread and saw that ChUcK was planning on doing some maintenance I assumed that he was gonna be doing a lot of grass mowing. And I think that would be awesome but IMHO that's all SeaTac needs. I started playing the course in the spring of 2005 and I play about 75 games a year there. It's a much easier course now than it was when I started. The course used to be MUCH more overgrown. I don't think that was a bad thing The recent unauthorized tree butchery that made the course easier was really aggravating. I've disagreed with some of the authorized maintenance. I don't like the window they cut in the bush just SE of basket 12.
I realize that not everyone appreciates difficult courses. I've played 41 courses in the past five years and I liked every one of them but the ones that are memorable (Mciver, Delaveaga, Lake Casitas) seem to be the more difficult ones.
Bottom Line: Don't make SeaTac easier - Do make it MORE difficult!