Personal Best!

[gwillim]

Originally Posted by smobro

Bring that game to GNO and BSF Dawg

maybe next year.

Originally Posted by smobro

Sweet! if that is the case, then my PB at the Canyon Course is -8. I always thought it was a par 54. sorta like there are a few par 2.5's out there that make up for the 1 legit par 4. I don't see 13 as being a par 4. maybe a par 3.2 I am often in the circle in two on 13. As far as 14 goes, is that a legit par 4 for advanced and pro players? It is pretty long for me, but I assumed you guys ate that hole up with a 380' drive and a 350' approach.

Par is pretty much irrelevant anyhow, which is why I wrote my total score as 44 instead of -12, but both 13 and 18 are fours. The definition of par is one very good drive (by an experienced player) and the option for two putts. There is no one in the world that can get within 60' off the drive on 13 or 18 without something really weird happening.

[KenGilmore]

Originally Posted by smobro

I wonder if Gilmore played it as a 54 or a 56?

I shot 45. When entering the score in hole by hole at discgolfscene, it showed up as 45 (-11), so the course par is set for 56 at that site.

Congrats, Ryan!

[Flash]

Originally Posted by gwillim

maybe next year.



Par is pretty much irrelevant anyhow, which is why I wrote my total score as 44 instead of -12, but both 13 and 18 are fours. The definition of par is one very good drive (by an experienced player) and the option for two putts. There is no one in the world that can get within 60' off the drive on 13 or 18 without something really weird happening.

Most designers do not consider this to be true anymore, it greatly depends on the hole layout and whether or not there are obstacles in front of the basket.

My opinion on hole 13, is when I play the hole well I get an easy three, when I play the hole pretty well I need to make a 25-30 footer for a 3, when I play the hole poorly I usually get a 4, even when I put my tee shot into the woods on the left. This hole is a tweener and needs to be resigned to be a hole that can be easily classified with a par rating. I would like to see the basket tucked inside the trees on the left and then we can call it a strong par 4.

Nice shooting Ryan, did you shoot that in a bag tag match!!!!

[Adam Schneider]

Originally Posted by Flash

This hole is a tweener and needs to be resigned to be a hole that can be easily classified with a par rating.

Well that's just silly. A hole needs to be re-worked so that its par is a whole number??

[gwillim]

Originally Posted by Flash

Most designers do not consider this to be true anymore, it greatly depends on the hole layout and whether or not there are obstacles in front of the basket.

I'd say an 80' high hill and a hard dog-leg left is a fairly formidable obstacle.

Originally Posted by Flash

My opinion on hole 13, is when I play the hole well I get an easy three, when I play the hole pretty well I need to make a 25-30 footer for a 3, when I play the hole poorly I usually get a 4, even when I put my tee shot into the woods on the left. This hole is a tweener and needs to be resigned to be a hole that can be easily classified with a par rating. I would like to see the basket tucked inside the trees on the left and then we can call it a strong par 4.

I agree that it's a tweener, but I'd be willing to assume that for most of the MPO and MA1 division, it leans more toward a 4. I'm trying to find the scorecards from the HHOPEN so that I can find the averages.

I don't necessarily think the hole needs to be redesigned on the status that it's a tweener. If that were the case, then you'd have to redesign holes 1, 5, 7, 11, 12 because those are all really easy 2s, probably around 2.5 or so.

I'd just rather be satisfied calling is a par 4, even though it's not a difficult par four, it's a fairly easy birdie, as are the above holes, which I think we can all agree that we can't call par 2s.

Originally Posted by Flash

Nice shooting Ryan, did you shoot that in a bag tag match!!!!

Thanks, it was in a tag match...with the ladies. I won.

[smobro]

Originally Posted by gwillim

I'd say an 80' high hill and a hard dog-leg left is a fairly formidable obstacle.


I agree that it's a tweener, but I'd be willing to assume that for most of the MPO and MA1 division, it leans more toward a 4. I'm trying to find the scorecards from the HHOPEN so that I can find the averages.

I don't necessarily think the hole needs to be redesigned on the status that it's a tweener. If that were the case, then you'd have to redesign holes 1, 5, 7, 11, 12 because those are all really easy 2s, probably around 2.5 or so.

I'd just rather be satisfied calling is a par 4, even though it's not a difficult par four, it's a fairly easy birdie, as are the above holes, which I think we can all agree that we can't call par 2s.




Thanks, it was in a tag match...with the ladies. I won.

Once again I have managed to throw a turd in the punch bowl without meaning to.

I never meant to overshadow an amazing accomplishment such as Gwillam's 44. My apologies Gwill. You rock! I hope you know I totally respect your game and you too.
Peace out,
Smo

[gwillim]

Originally Posted by smobro

Once again I have managed to throw a turd in the punch bowl without meaning to.

?

I noticed no turd! Apology not necessary, we were simply debating/discussing the qualifications of hole 13.

Thanks for the props though!

[snap7times]

I think hole 13 should stay a par 3, a very tough par 3. I like the holes where a birdie 2 is impossible and you need to place your tee shot to have a clean shot at just getting par. Kinda like "original layout milo" hole number 1 being a par 4, it's an "impossible birdie 3", *i know 1 out of every 5,000 players get a birdie 3 on this hole*, but that what makes it a lockdown focus hole to get that par 4.
Now for hole 18, I think that should be a par 4 since an awesome drive off the pad would still be over 150-250 feet from the basket if not more plus the mando presents difficulty off the tee. And if the swamp is marked OB, then that would be a bigger challenge.
Hole 1 with the OB on the left and right make it a more intimidating birdie hole. Hole 11 has plenty of trees to knock down your drive. My opinion the course should be par 55. And my best is like -3 to -5, been a while...

[Adam Schneider]

Originally Posted by snap7times

Kinda like "original layout milo" hole number 1 being a par 4, it's an "impossible birdie 3"

Have you never seen the short left position? That one's very three-able with the right 2nd shot.

[snap7times]

During tournaments, this basket is always in the back so I refer to tournament pin placements most of the time. Forgive me for not being more clear. The 850' hole 1, with pin placement in the far back on the right is a very tough Par 4. I want it a Par 5, but Par 4 makes you work hard.

[smobro]

Shot a -13 at HH #2 (Highland) course today. learned how to putt those baskets finally. did have 4 good putts scoop out of the bottom though. Wish we could score the inside of them so tey actually hold a putt. Can't fault the basic design or the designer though. Thnks Bob for creating a fun couple courses.

[Jet]

Originally Posted by smobro

Shot a -13 at HH #2 (Highland) course today. learned how to putt those baskets finally. did have 4 good putts scoop out of the bottom though. Wish we could score the inside of them so tey actually hold a putt. Can't fault the basic design or the designer though. Thnks Bob for creating a fun couple courses.

How do you putt those baskets?

[Trozzle!!!]

I think the best way to putt the HH baskets is a nose down approach. coming in straight or nose up leads to more kickouts for sure.

[Sam]

Milo hole 1 of the 27 is NOT an impossible birdie at par 4. Several pros carded 3s last year and the year before at the Fling. Further, Hagerty and I got this in 3 playing doubles without much trouble. Well... not much trouble for me. Hagerty did most of the work. I just put the 12 foot putt in off of the two monster throws he put together. That could be a par 4 and probably should be. Not that it REALLY matters, though.

[KenGilmore]

It is okay for Hole 1 to be a par 5. After all, there isn't a rule that says you shouldn't be able to get eagles occasionally.

[Sam]

I agree with this, too. I just don't buy the "impossible birdie" argument about that hole.

[snap7times]

I think it should be a par 5... And yes sam, i did mention that 1 out of 5,000 players get a birdie 3 on that hole... Sure some pros get a birdie 3, but how often? Less than 25 times a year out of the 20,000 players that play that hole? I was there when they were discussing the rationale to change the hole from par 5 to par 4... It made no sense because what about hole 3 on the cliff, most of the pros birdie that in 2, should we make that a par 2? Because I know if 20,000 players played that hole, there gonna be a few aces, same odds to make an birdie 3 on hole 1... In ball golf, eagles happen quite often for the pros on the par 5 holes, it should be available to the pros in disc golf. Amateurs should have an opportunity to birdie these tough holes, just like the pros. I did make this hole in 4, but not without 4 straight beautiful shots and I know I will probably never have an opportunity to look at a 3 on that hole...

[Trozzle!!!]

I do love hearing stories about people shooting -11, -13 or more on the Hornings short course. great scores for sure. But, is that playing Par 2's or Par 3's? According to Bob Horning, the course designer, it is a par 2 course. So, someone like Kent shooting -13, isnt truly a -13. If he shot 3's on 5 holes, and 13 2's, it wouldnt actually be a -13. It would actually be a +5.

Not trying to take away from anyones glory if they shot negative rounds on the short course, but your negative score playing par 3's isnt a neg par round if you are playing par 3's.

[snap7times]

Originally Posted by Trozzle!!!

I do love hearing stories about people shooting -11, -13 or more on the Hornings short course. great scores for sure. But, is that playing Par 2's or Par 3's? According to Bob Horning, the course designer, it is a par 2 course. So, someone like Kent shooting -13, isnt truly a -13. If he shot 3's on 5 holes, and 13 2's, it wouldnt actually be a -13. It would actually be a +5.

Not trying to take away from anyones glory if they shot negative rounds on the short course, but your negative score playing par 3's isnt a neg par round if you are playing par 3's.

I would keep it at par 3... Otherwise the course record would probably be at E or -1 if someone nailed 17 2's and an ACE, which is like super hard... I would rather see -19 as the course record than a -1... But that's only one man's opinion... But then again you could make some holes par 2 and the others par 3 to make it more appropriate...

[Trozzle!!!]

as far as ease of record keeping, I say lets keep it as a par 3 for scoring. But in reality, from the course designer, it is a Par 2 course.