Not paying to park at Blue Lake = Douchebag

[SMOKIN JOE]

Don't agree with not paying to park but can understand why someone might not. What gets me going is playing holes 1-7 just fine then getting backed up for an hour on hole 8 with 5 groups in front of you. Start at tee one will ya.

[Adam Schneider]

My thoughts on the subject, which I realize are very different from most NWDGN forum-goers (but perhaps not uncommon amongst the general public): I paid $5 to play Blue Lake Park once, just so I could see what all the fuss was about. I'm glad I went, but I probably won't be back much. I don't think a course with four 900'+ holes is much fun.

If I'm headed out that direction, I'll have a more enjoyable time if I drive five more minutes and go to Dabney or Rooster Rock, both of which I can get into using my Oregon State Parks pass — which is also valid at McIver, Stub Stewart, Champoeg, and a whole pile of other non-DG parks (e.g., Silver Falls, Ecola, Nehalem Bay).

Basically, for me, playing Blue Lake isn't worth the money. If I was in the neighborhood and there was a free parking option, I might take advantage of that, because the alternative is not going there at all.

[Chet Chainley]

What I though was a little effed up was the fact the season pass doesn't start when you buy it, unlike the state parks pass does. I have spent $40.00 on parking this year at Blue Lake and I will now be parking on the street when I go there to play. I will however, walk to hole 1 to begin.

[pdxdiscer]

Is everybody cool with me buying the yearly pass and parking on the street to start at hole 8?

This debate is quite similar to $ parking pass to access public lands [NW Forest Pass], with similar issues:

A. If you pay, theoretically you have more say in the use of the resource. Is this true at Blue Lake?

B. Not everyone is in a position to pay everytime/anytime they want to access this outdoor resource,
or Does EVERY F'in thing in this society have to cost cash money, and F@#$ you if ya ain't got ? (the answer might be 'yes')

C. there will always be free riders on a resource that is not completely access restricted , like clean air
so maybe those who carpool in a Prius can park on street and those who drive alone in their SUV should pay to park?

D. how much more space on my windshield can I cover with these things?
Do u contribute?
from http://www.oregonmetro.gov/index.cfm/go/by.web/id=24271
Metro will receive an estimated $39 million in property tax in FY 2011-12
PLUS local, state and federal grants ($12.6 million)
PLUS Current revenue= 57% of Metro's resources
such as: solid waste disposal fees {Metro's largest $ activity}, also Zoo admission fees, Blue Lake fees, Arleen Snitz concert admission...
METRO also brings you the Urban Growth Boundry, probably the only thing slowing PDX's slide toward Seattle sprawl and Californication

[loki]

I worry about what the neighbors will think. When I played Blue lake for the first time I walked out onto the street for a cigarette after hole 9. Then I realized that this is a practice that will probably piss off the neighbors so even though I am a heavy smoker I have submitted to the fact that I just won't smoke when I play blue lake. I saw what it did to that short lived little course most recently removed in Gresham. Between the parking issues, the smoking and the drinking (mainly littering by the way of cans and bottles) a couple of neighbors had enough pictorial proof to have the course removed. Imagine how embarrassing that would be if they removed blue lake before 2014?

I'm not calling people douchebags for parking outside the park because it is not for me to judge those on a tighter budget than I, but......I would suggest that most people who can afford to drive out there to play can afford the $5 fee, but for those who cant they should probably get a ride with someone who can. If this practice becomes a big issue with the locals it could have some seriously negative affects to the longevity of blue lake as a disc golf destination.

There will always be the few who make disc golf look bad. Just as long as the majority can carry themselves with decorum, civility, discretion and respect we can continue to be given opportunities such as the ones realized at Blue Lake. But if enough people get rubbed the wrong way it can all go away very quickly.

[pdxdiscer]

[quote=loki

Just as long as the majority can carry themselves with decorum, civility, discretion and respect we can continue to be given opportunities such as the ones realized at Blue Lake. [/QUOTE]

[Matt B.]

Unfortunately we seem to have a disproportionately high rate of "Rebel Without a Clue" syndrome in the disc golfer community. This situation seems like a pretty good example. It can also be described as "cutting off your nose to spite your face". People are going to stick it to the man, man! If that results in everybody losing out, oh well man, f*ck it.

It's nothing new, and not unique to Blue Lake. What's unique to Blue Lake is both just how much there is to lose, and the forethought and care the crew that installed the course put into identifying the potential problems and trying to put solutions into place from the get-go. For instance, the tee signs on the holes that play along the neighborhood road reminding us that we are guests in the neighborhood.

First time I played there I encountered a group at the tee of the last hole along that road drinking, smoking and in the company of their dog. No big surprise, but still a disappointment. I hope the Blue Lake staff and Metro are tracking an increase in parking fees and can relate it to this awesome disc golf course sooner rather than later. And maybe if road parking becomes really popular, the fee structure changes to pay-to-play instead of pay-to-park? That would be a shame, as I really like the thinking that encourages car-pooling and alternative transport.

Just because it's legal to park on that road doesn't make it a smart thing to do for people who want to see the course succeed. It's pretty sure to be the first thing the neighbors notice though, unless people have been parking there for other reasons prior to the course installation. And once some neighbor decides they don't like that, they will start to find other things they don't like.

[Matt B.]

Originally Posted by Adam Schneider

My thoughts on the subject, which I realize are very different from most NWDGN forum-goers (but perhaps not uncommon amongst the general public): I paid $5 to play Blue Lake Park once, just so I could see what all the fuss was about. I'm glad I went, but I probably won't be back much. I don't think a course with four 900'+ holes is much fun.

If I'm headed out that direction, I'll have a more enjoyable time if I drive five more minutes and go to Dabney or Rooster Rock, both of which I can get into using my Oregon State Parks pass — which is also valid at McIver, Stub Stewart, Champoeg, and a whole pile of other non-DG parks (e.g., Silver Falls, Ecola, Nehalem Bay).

Basically, for me, playing Blue Lake isn't worth the money. If I was in the neighborhood and there was a free parking option, I might take advantage of that, because the alternative is not going there at all.

Adam, will we ever break you out of that "it's not fun if I don't have a chance at a 2" mold? What's a few extra throws on a nice walk in the park?

[Adam Schneider]

Originally Posted by Matt B.

Adam, will we ever break you out of that "it's not fun if I don't have a chance at a 2" mold?

Nope. And I still have no desire to play in tournaments.

Part of it is about TIME: one of the things I like about disc golf is that it doesn't take all day to play a round. If I've got 90 minutes to play, I'd rather play 18 holes (or 27 if solo) than 9.

And like I said, I'm not alone. Casual players are underrepresented on internet forums.

[Flatroc]

Originally Posted by Matt B.

It's nothing new, and not unique to Blue Lake.

I don't think it's right, but some things will never change.
It's been going on for years at other places and I have yet to hear of any courses being closed because of it.
Tom Pearce in Grants Pass deals with this daily. The worst part of this being that the jerks start the course on hole 8.
So, don't design courses with holes 7 or 8 by public access and we should be gudt to go, eh?
I think if you state your feelings to these peeps in an educational way, (line them up in a firing squad and throw stiff Eclipses at their knees) you may get one or two to climb on board and then, after they can walk again, they may teach they're buddies to start on tee 1.

[Matt B.]

Originally Posted by Flatroc

I don't think it's right, but some things will never change.
It's been going on for years at other places and I have yet to hear of any courses being closed because of it.
Tom Pearce in Grants Pass deals with this daily. The worst part of this being that the jerks start the course on hole 8.
So, don't design courses with holes 7 or 8 by public access and we should be gudt to go, eh?
I think if you state your feelings to these peeps in an educational way, (line them up in a firing squad and throw stiff Eclipses at their knees) you may get one or two to climb on board and then, after they can walk again, they may teach they're buddies to start on tee 1.

I haven't been to Tom Pearce, what's the situation?

[Flatroc]

Originally Posted by Matt B.

I haven't been to Tom Pearce, what's the situation?

People park outside the gate to avoid the park fee and walk into the course. Typically they start on hole #8.

[Wes Hansen]

Tp has a park fee?
When did that happen?

[emmarose]

Originally Posted by Chet Chainley

What I though was a little effed up was the fact the season pass doesn't start when you buy it, unlike the state parks pass does. I have spent $40.00 on parking this year at Blue Lake and I will now be parking on the street when I go there to play. I will however, walk to hole 1 to begin.

i concur, hanley. i mean, chet (would hate to blow your secret identity).


i do pay when i go, but that's 'cause i have a really hard time breaking the rules... i now i have spent well over $40 and am hoping that someone gets me a permit for christmast (hint hint, dad).

[emmarose]

Originally Posted by Flatroc

I don't think it's right, but some things will never change.
It's been going on for years at other places and I have yet to hear of any courses being closed because of it.
Tom Pearce in Grants Pass deals with this daily. The worst part of this being that the jerks start the course on hole 8.
So, don't design courses with holes 7 or 8 by public access and we should be gudt to go, eh?
I think if you state your feelings to these peeps in an educational way, (line them up in a firing squad and throw stiff Eclipses at their knees) you may get one or two to climb on board and then, after they can walk again, they may teach they're buddies to start on tee 1.

eclipses!!! i have lots... let me know if you need them.

[Adam Schneider]

Originally Posted by Wes Hansen

Tp has a park fee?
When did that happen?

Both Lake Selmac and Tom Pearce require a Josephine County Parks day-use fee. A few years ago it was $2, but now it's $4. I wonder if the price increase led to significantly more people parking outside and walking in.

By the way, I don't see why anyone cares if people jump onto a course on a hole other than #1, as long as they move faster (or at least the same speed) as the people "behind" them.

[jevon]

Originally Posted by Adam Schneider

By the way, I don't see why anyone cares if people jump onto a course on a hole other than #1, as long as they move faster (or at least the same speed) as the people "behind" them.

Because they never do move faster. They jump in front causing you to be delayed. You waited behind the groups on hole one, then as things are flowing nice you have to wait on hole 7, 8, or 9 because they didn't want to wait at hole one and jump in front of you.

[Flatroc]

Originally Posted by Adam Schneider

Both Lake Selmac and Tom Pearce require a Josephine County Parks day-use fee. A few years ago it was $2, but now it's $4. I wonder if the price increase led to significantly more people parking outside and walking in.

By the way, I don't see why anyone cares if people jump onto a course on a hole other than #1, as long as they move faster (or at least the same speed) as the people "behind" them.

Joe County Parks require a "park permit" fee, not a "day-use" fee. This fee went up from $2 to $4 Jan. of last year as a result of budget cuts and certain parks being close to the chopping block. The 'outsider' problem escalated this summer and is indeed an issue with the park peeps. They are currently working with the city zoning/street peeps to see what can be done.
Adam, I think that taking cuts is rude and much worse than walking in for free and if you ever see Emma and I behind you with our Eclipser's you may want to let us know that you for sure started on hole one.

[Adam Schneider]

Originally Posted by Flatroc

Adam, I think that taking cuts is rude and much worse than walking in for free

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't tournament players start in different spots all over the course? How is that different?

Originally Posted by jevon

Because they never do move faster. They jump in front causing you to be delayed.

Really? They never move faster? So you're saying that when I'm playing by myself and I jump in on hole #4, the foursome with beer coolers and chairs on #2 is going to catch up to me?

[emmarose]

Originally Posted by Adam Schneider

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't tournament players start in different spots all over the course? How is that different?

i'm gonna assume you're really asking this... so here goes: it is different because 1) you're playing a tournament. 2) everyone starts at the same time. 3) the groups consist of 4 or less... so you are not stuck behind a group of 5 or 6 or 8 or... 4) it's a tournament. people are aware of speed of play and are not drinking, gabbing (well, one would hope), answering their phones/texting or otherwise lollygagging.

it's just different, yo.