Quitting a tournament to save your rating...

[Bullseye]

I think the solution to this issue could potentially be quite simple. If you start a round, and do not finish that round for any reason, that round will be rated at (1.5x?) your standard deviation. With that rule in place any unfinished rounds would always be included in your rating. Sure, they will sting a little bit, but the ratings punishment would not be unduly severe.

[Parks]

Originally Posted by Bullseye

I think the solution to this issue could potentially be quite simple. If you start a round, and do not finish that round for any reason, that round will be rated at (1.5x?) your standard deviation. With that rule in place any unfinished rounds would always be included in your rating. Sure, they will sting a little bit, but the ratings punishment would not be unduly severe.

That would benefit a player more than 1 out of 20 rounds if assuming they are randomly dropped from a round. Considering that the player is probably dropping due to poor performance it would rate their round higher than actual more often than that.

If you were to actually handle dropped rounds this way, then you would probably want to make it 2.5 standard deviations plus one point (and not exceeding 99 rating points) lower than average so that it was at the lowest rating that could be included in the rating.

[Chuck Kennedy]

You would only want to do that (2.5SD-1) for Pros. If you did it for Ams, you would be sanctioning a fast way for them to drop their ratings and bag in a lower division.

[Lund]

I have only seen people drop out first hand on a couple occasions and they were not injury related. Once it was to protect a rating the other was because someone couldn't deal with cold / rainy conditions. To be honest it was more of an addition by subtraction for the rest of the group in both instances.

[Jason Philips]

Originally Posted by Lund

To be honest it was more of an addition by subtraction for the rest of the group in both instances.

I still think the issue for me is the fact that someone who would have played no matter what. Someone who would have stuck it out was probably on a waitlist and didn't get to play.

I wonder if there is a system of notification of players who perpetually drop from tournaments. Would a tournament director want to know of people who typically do not finish?

[Parks]

Originally Posted by Chuck Kennedy

You would only want to do that (2.5SD-1) for Pros. If you did it for Ams, you would be sanctioning a fast way for them to drop their ratings and bag in a lower division.

Not to mention that if the player were a propagator then this would skew the round ratings for everyone else to be slightly better than they actually were due to the course looking harder.

Overall, I think that dropping the round entirely is probably the best overall solution. Allowing reporting for repeat offenders is also nice. This is the current system from my understanding, so I don't see a good reason to change it.

[pdxdiscer]

one real life consequence might be: dropping out to preserve a rating above X,
X being the rating that allows you to sign up for a sell-out tourney [BSF perhaps] earlier

like : Thurs Nov 1st : sign up for all pros with player rating above X
Fri Nov 2nd: all pros with a rating below X and above Y can now sign up for remaining slots

[Chuck Kennedy]

This is causing a bit of a problem in Europe where minimum ratings are used to determine preference for several event entries. This has resulted in complaints from some European organizers that the PDGA isn't doing enough to stop the "DNF to protect a rating" problem. Of course, the rules do not allow players to withdraw or tank rounds to protect their rating if it's actually called [3.3B(13)]. Getting players and TDs to call it is part of the problem.

[Bullseye]

Originally Posted by Chuck Kennedy

Getting players and TDs to call it is part of the problem.

Hmmm... Calling it... and having ANYONE listen are two entirely different things. I know of several cases where people DID complain about the actions of some players only to have their concerns fall on completely deaf ears. If the PDGA never responds to a valid issue, it pretty much makes people think it is pointless to even complain.

[CMC206]

I was thinking it would be cool if they institute something that penalizes the player that quits a tourney. My idea is to have a few categories:

DNF - I (injury) no penalty

DNF - E (Emergency) No Penalty

DNF - DNF something should happen to your rating like a -10 point penalty?

Thoughts?

[CarlitosBonitos]

Originally Posted by CMC206

I was thinking it would be cool if they institute something that penalizes the player that quits a tourney. My idea is to have a few categories:

DNF - I (injury) no penalty

DNF - E (Emergency) No Penalty

DNF - DNF something should happen to your rating like a -10 point penalty?

Thoughts?

That is an excellent idea, plus the players who jsut no show the second day of an event would be much more apt to call or send a message to the TD that some kind of Emergency happend (real or percieved) which would then give the TD the proper information needed to assign players to cards and avoid the only 2 people show up rule.

I personally would never quit a round short of Injury or Emergency, but if I knew that my rating was going to take a 10 point hit if I didnt provide explanation to the TD, I would certainly make an effort to give them a heads up. This doesnt only happen on day two, it can also happen on round 2 if you shoot really crappy then I have seen many instances of no showing for round 2. In the interest of Sportsmanship and limited availability, I think it would be a great idea to hold these perpetual DNF'ers accountable.

[Kris C]

So if a pro were to shoot 14 and then 80 points below their rating on day 1, would that affect their ratings enough to make them not show on day 2?

[Scott]

Originally Posted by CMC206

I was thinking it would be cool if they institute something that penalizes the player that quits a tourney. My idea is to have a few categories:

DNF - I (injury) no penalty

DNF - E (Emergency) No Penalty

DNF - DNF something should happen to your rating like a -10 point penalty?

Thoughts?

Not that tough to fake an injury.

[Bullseye]

Originally Posted by CMC206

I was thinking it would be cool if they institute something that penalizes the player that quits a tourney. My idea is to have a few categories:

DNF - I (injury) no penalty

DNF - E (Emergency) No Penalty

DNF - DNF something should happen to your rating like a -10 point penalty?

Thoughts?

Originally Posted by Scott

Not that tough to fake an injury.

Exactly.

Which is why my suggested solution wasn't overly harsh, but it affected EVERY round that a player starts but does not finish.

[Chuck Kennedy]

The PDGA Disciplinary Committee has actually dealt with at least 5 cases pertaining to tanking rounds in the past year. Not sure what penalty was applied in any case but it did not affect their rating.

Roger and I proposed a 5-point penalty be applied to a Pro's current rating (not Ams) for any DNF regardless of reason that would be in place for 6 months. Just like it doesn't matter why you are late to your hole(s) and get par+4, we wouldn't care why the player withdrew. It would just be the standard penalty for any DNF. It's still being considered.

[Jason Philips]

Originally Posted by Scott

Not that tough to fake an injury.

Losing your ass is not a fake injury, is it?



Chuck, while I can appreciate 5 cases being handled over the last year one look at any larger tournament shows a number higher than that for one single tournament.

Serious question, does anyone know what the rules are pertaining to rounds in PGA ball golf events? If a player leaves early is there a penalty? Just curious.

[Flash]

Originally Posted by Jason Philips

Losing your ass is not a fake injury, is it?



Chuck, while I can appreciate 5 cases being handled over the last year one look at any larger tournament shows a number higher than that for one single tournament.

Serious question, does anyone know what the rules are pertaining to rounds in PGA ball golf events? If a player leaves early is there a penalty? Just curious.

No sure but there is usually a significant loss of money to the player and the sponsor. Also almost every ball golf event has a cut, you won't make the cut if you are sucking pond water. If you make the cut and drop you are walking away from a paycheck.

[DMajor]

I think if you're unavoidably negatively affecting the people around you or are physically hurt then by all means quit. If you're just having a shitty day I think it's best to stick it out & be grateful for the opportunity to control your emotions instead of letting your emotions control you. I learn far more from the bad days on the course than I do the good.

As far as sanctions for DNF's go, I think you should get a set # per year with no penalty. If you exceed that # you are suspended from playing tournaments for x amount of time. If you're DNF's are legitimate injuries then you should be able to appeal the suspension.

**I really think something like the above idea should only apply to the upper end of the pros though. A few rating points doesn't really matter much for the rest of us & would be a waste of time & resources for the PDGA to administer. A simple internet incentive such as an iron man award for your player page given to those with no annual DNF's (or something similar) might go a long way. Go 5 years with no DNF'S & get a pin for your bag or something.

[Chuck Kennedy]

In 2011 there were a bit more than 2800 DNFs out of around 200,000 rounds. So less than 2%. One player had the most at 6.