line of play definition

[vapor]

from the PDGA site:

"B. Casual Obstacles to a Stance: A player may obtain relief only from the following obstacles that are in the stance or run-up area: casual water, loose leaves or debris, broken branches no longer connected to a tree, motor vehicles, harmful insects or animals, players' equipment, people, or any item or area specifically designated by the director before the round. The player must first attempt to remove the obstacle. If it is impractical to move the obstacle, the player's lie may be relocated to the nearest lie which is no closer to the hole, is on the line of play, and is not more than five meters from the original lie, as agreed to by a majority of the group or an official (unless greater casual relief is announced by the director)."

When dealing with casual water, what is the definition of "line of play"? And can the player take five meters to get a better shot even if one meter of relief would get you out of the water?

[Sausage Fingers]

Originally Posted by vapor

from the PDGA site:

"B. Casual Obstacles to a Stance: A player may obtain relief only from the following obstacles that are in the stance or run-up area: casual water, loose leaves or debris, broken branches no longer connected to a tree, motor vehicles, harmful insects or animals, players' equipment, people, or any item or area specifically designated by the director before the round. The player must first attempt to remove the obstacle. If it is impractical to move the obstacle, the player's lie may be relocated to the nearest lie which is no closer to the hole, is on the line of play, and is not more than five meters from the original lie, as agreed to by a majority of the group or an official (unless greater casual relief is announced by the director)."

When dealing with casual water, what is the definition of "line of play"? And can the player take five meters to get a better shot even if one meter of relief would get you out of the water?

The line of play is a straight line from the pin through the center of your disc.

I would say no unless the TD has specific rules for the hole. But I am mean that way.

[Chuck Kennedy]

The exception for the line of play going from the pin thru the center of your disc is when there's a mando you haven't yet passed, the line of play goes from the mando thru the center of your disc.

[Yardbird]

Not to encourage thread drift but this question is related.

What is the correct ruling for a large debris pile from a work party that was not delclared a casual obstacle by the TD before the round starts. It would be impractical to move the obstacle and could be viewed as a safety hazard if the pile is large enough.

1) Are you allowed casual relief (up to five meters)(no penalty)?

2) Or do you have to play it as it lies?

[Chuck Kennedy]

Presumably, the brush pile contains a bunch of unattached branches, logs and twigs. The player landing in there may try to remove the debris crossing their lie and run-up OR take up to 5m free relief behind their current lie until out of the brush pile.

[Sausage Fingers]

Originally Posted by Chuck Kennedy

Presumably, the brush pile contains a bunch of unattached branches, logs and twigs. The player landing in there may try to remove the debris crossing their lie and run-up OR take up to 5m free relief behind their current lie until out of the brush pile.

Sure, as long as the lie is moved away from the pin along the line of play 5m or less, I can live with that. But you'd be throwing directly behind the brush pile and any follow through would have you stepping on the brush pile. You cannot move farther back to allow for your follow through.

[mowens404]

Originally Posted by Sausage Fingers

Sure, as long as the lie is moved away from the pin along the line of play 5m or less, I can live with that. But you'd be throwing directly behind the brush pile and any follow through would have you stepping on the brush pile. You cannot move farther back to allow for your follow through.

you would have ample room for follow through if you scoot far enough back. 5 meters is a lot of room.

[Cornwall, Esq.]

This thread has been great learnings make benefits glorious nation of Kazakhstan. So the relief is always 5 meters backwards, and never to the left or right 5 meters (of the original disc landing spot/marker), correct? Now I see why line of play was being emphasized.

[Sausage Fingers]

Originally Posted by mowens404

you would have ample room for follow through if you scoot far enough back. 5 meters is a lot of room.

No. Read the emphasized words again:

Originally Posted by vapor

from the PDGA site:

"B. Casual Obstacles to a Stance: A player may obtain relief only from the following obstacles that are in the stance or run-up area: casual water, loose leaves or debris, broken branches no longer connected to a tree, motor vehicles, harmful insects or animals, players' equipment, people, or any item or area specifically designated by the director before the round. The player must first attempt to remove the obstacle. If it is impractical to move the obstacle, the player's lie may be relocated to the nearest lie which is no closer to the hole, is on the line of play, and is not more than five meters from the original lie, as agreed to by a majority of the group or an official (unless greater casual relief is announced by the director)."

That to me says you can move your lie to just behind the scrap pile, but not far enough back that your follow through has room before stepping on the scrap pile. I could be wrong, it has happened before...

[Scott]

Originally Posted by Sausage Fingers

No. Read the emphasized words again:



That to me says you can move your lie to just behind the scrap pile, but not far enough back that your follow through has room before stepping on the scrap pile. I could be wrong, it has happened before...

But you forgot to emphasize these words: "as agreed to by a majority of the group or an official". You could argue that too close would not give you a safe shot.

[Sausage Fingers]

Originally Posted by Scott

But you forgot to emphasize these words: "as agreed to by a majority of the group or an official". You could argue that too close would not give you a safe shot.

Nothing says your shot has to be safe. Unplayable Lie has been replaced with Optional Relief (805.03c) and incurs a one stroke penalty. That will let you move to any spot on the line of play no closer to the hole.

The majority of the group cannot decide to make a new rule because they want to do so...well unless you are playing in the Legends division, they can do whatever they want...

[Mr. Anderson]

A group of disc golfers should use the "Spirit of Game" as a guideline. That is, if someone is to throw their disc into an obstacle, an obstacle that was present before the disc was thrown, would they deserve to move their lie to an area that was safe but also easier to throw? A golfer should want to take on the challenge of getting out of the mess they threw into. Its a fine line between being safe and making the shot easier and I have seen disc golfers take the easy way out waaaay to many times. I understand being safe but as sausage fingers has stated a golfers lie should be nearest to the original lie. If the subsequent lie only allows you to throw a 15' pitch out, then that's "your medicine." A golfer shouldn't back up another 10' so they can have a run-up and a full follow through and make the hole easier to complete. /rant off/

[mowens404]

Originally Posted by Sausage Fingers

Nothing says your shot has to be safe. Unplayable Lie has been replaced with Optional Relief (805.03c) and incurs a one stroke penalty. That will let you move to any spot on the line of play no closer to the hole.

The majority of the group cannot decide to make a new rule because they want to do so...well unless you are playing in the Legends division, they can do whatever they want...

B. Casual Obstacles to a Stance: A player may obtain relief only from the following obstacles that are in the stance or run-up area:

What is the official definition of run-up area? does that include your follow through? or does that mean up until the disc leaves your hand?

[Sausage Fingers]

Originally Posted by mowens404

B. Casual Obstacles to a Stance: A player may obtain relief only from the following obstacles that are in the stance or run-up area:

What is the official definition of run-up area? does that include your follow through? or does that mean up until the disc leaves your hand?

You probably know how I feel about it. If you can stand and throw without an obstacle to your stance or run-up area, then the follow through is on you. If the follow through is not safe from that lie, use a stand and throw technique with no follow through AND DON'T THROW YOUR SHOT TO THAT PLACE NEXT TIME!

But really, if there are large plies of debris on the course the TD should have rules to account for that problem.

[Yardbird]

Really... If you can take a stance by only moving a reasonable amount debris (if desired), then YOU need to make the right decision on the TYPE of throw that will result in NO injury.

Just because you aren't presented with a perfect stance area doesn't mean that you can move to your lie to your liking. There are plenty of different throws available to get your disc towards the target.

Yes, the "spirit of the game" should take priority. Play it as it lies.

IMHO, the only time you should get relief from a debris pile is when the pile is very large and you can't get at least one supporting point (foot) contacting solid ground for safety's sake. Pretty much the same throwing option as being in a large bushy plant/tree.

[Flatroc]

I think the words "up to" and "nearest" when referring to the meter rulings need to be more defined.
It seems to me that in certain situations they could contradict each other.

[Sausage Fingers]

Originally Posted by Flatroc

It seems to me that in certain situations they could contradict each other.

Not when "nearest" has priority over "up to".

[Scott]

The way I interpret this scenario is as follows: Disc lands in a large pile of debris that was left over from a work party. Due to the size of the pile, it would be unsafe for the player to climb up and throw. The player digs out his disc and moves backwards to immediately behind the pile - the first place where he can get solid and safe footing. The player does not get to automatically go back 5 meters simply because that would give him a better look.

[Chuck Kennedy]

Note that the underlying reason for casual relief is not safety but that the obstacle was not intended to be part of the course design. That goes for casual water, vehicles, player equipment and downed sticks-branches-trunks whether they show up on the course the day of the event (rain, vehicles) or they were never cleared in the first place as in brush piles or sticks that fell down or were never picked up since the course was installed. Same with harmful animals that randomly may show up on the hole. Whereas, harmful plants have been growing in the same location for some period of time and the designer could have marked the area for relief or removed them if the designer did not "intend" to leave them as part of the challenges on the hole. That's partly why there's no free relief from them.

[Mr. Anderson]

Should your group mark the lie or should the player?