Sekani Process

[Yoduh]

My argument needs NO validation!! If there was a meeting set up between either party the whole board needs to be notified, according to your rants and others at the last club meeting.

[Yoduh]

Originally Posted by coryreu

You're right. It's not on Bob to report that there is a meeting. That's why he was never asked to do so. He was asked to report the notes from the meeting itself. To forward the news to club. The way all info gathered should be announced. Bob, you're forgiven for not getting it out two days earlier.

And you say that you know for a fact that Gordy set up the meeting. Like Lyle, you have no reason to believe so. You DON'T know it's a fact because it isn't true. You just say it went down like that in order to give your complaints validity. I KNOW FOR A FACT Gordy was invited to meet with Mike and the Fat Tire Bike reps.

I also know for a fact that if I were invited to a meeting that was going to give me information that I was entitled to from day one, but was still left out of the loop, I would take someone up on that invite in a HEARTBEAT.

How do you know it's not true, because you were there when Gordy got the phone call? He's not the only person who talks to Mike.. He hasn't been talking to Mike at all, but he called Mike to inquire about a meeting. Mike called him back and set up the meeting.. If that's what he meant by he called and set up the meeting than that's really cute, but it doesn't pass as an excuse. NOT EVEN CLOSE!

[coryreu]

Originally Posted by Yoduh

My argument needs NO validation!!.

Is that why you continue arguing?

[Yoduh]

I appreciate that you understand my point. I would like to see this process run as smoothly as possible and turn out as well as possible. I think it's a bad idea that anyone that wants to could call and set up a meeting with the parks department. Anybody that has been a part of a complicated, multi-faceted, discussion should not be circumvented because it causes us to loose our place in line. If Mike says you can have this and than says no you can't. You can say well ok, what can we replace that with? Where as somebody who has no clue hears "you can't have that" and they say ok. The SDGA should be trying to secure AS MUCH LAND AS POSSIBLE! At the very least the new person should seek counsel on how to work with the situation. They need to know what has been promised and what has already been added, and what has been taken away and why all this has happened. Since you and Gordy spent 21/2 hour figuring all of this stuff out, you could understand how complicated the situation could be.

[Wobbly Bob]

Originally Posted by Yoduh

I appreciate that you understand my point. I would like to see this process run as smoothly as possible and turn out as well as possible. I think it's a bad idea that anyone that wants to could call and set up a meeting with the parks department. Anybody that has been a part of a complicated, multi-faceted, discussion should not be circumvented because it causes us to loose our place in line. If Mike says you can have this and than says no you can't. You can say well ok, what can we replace that with? Where as somebody who has no clue hears "you can't have that" and they say ok. The SDGA should be trying to secure AS MUCH LAND AS POSSIBLE! At the very least the new person should seek counsel on how to work with the situation. They need to know what has been promised and what has already been added, and what has been taken away and why all this has happened. Since you and Gordy spent 21/2 hour figuring all of this stuff out, you could understand how complicated the situation could be.

I have spoken with Mike and he will be sending the "Memorandum of Understanding" to me. As soon as I have received this document I will archive it and pass it along to the SDGA Board.

This will be the first item that the SDGA has seen from the Parks Dept. concerning Camp Sekani that is in writing and it will supersede any understanding that was talked about in the past.

I hope that we get it before the meeting tomorrow.

[Sky Pilot]

What we have are two political parties. I lead the ACTION party and Gordy leads the REACTION party. The REACTION party seems to be highly interested in mastering the dubious art of 'invalidation'. They follow what I do religiously and react predictably. And like James Bond, smoke screens are sent out on a regular basis to try to 'cloud' issues. Oil slicks are also distributed to try to throw some into the ditch. Thank God I'm not in the ditch and I can still see through the smoke.

Sky Pilot

[The Stranger]

So I got a chance to play the Jamboree course today. It may need some tweaking, but was fun. Had some really cool holes, but some seemed like filler. I guess that's where the tweaking comes in. Need to get back into shape to walk this one though.

Also the thought of having a course closer to where I live is exciting. Our two public courses are kind of a drive.

I have noticed on this forum that Jeff and Jeremy are being demonized by others in the SDGA. Maybe they didn't go through the proper procedures to get the course up, but I can't be mad at them for getting another course in town.

Maybe I don't have the complete story. I do know that getting more courses in the area is not a bad thing. It would help the growth of disc golf in the Spokane area, and if the sport grows so could the SDGA.

[Parks]

Obviously, demonizing Jeremy and Jeff is part of being a respected club member.

However, whenever they bring up ideas or projects then those are obviously disrespecting the SDGA and its membership.

You need to get with the program.

[Yoduh]

Originally Posted by Parks

Obviously, demonizing Jeremy and Jeff is part of being a respected club member.

However, whenever they bring up ideas or projects then those are obviously disrespecting the SDGA and its membership.

You need to get with the program.

Thank you Lyle, we can't have the "club" saying good things or giving positive feedback, it's embarrassing to Jeff and myself. It invalidates the whole mob mentality that 5 or so people have which as you can see by reading this forum, is the whole club.

[Parks]

Correct.

[Simmeltron]

Originally Posted by Yoduh

Thank you Lyle, we can't have the "club" saying good things or giving positive feedback, it's embarrassing to Jeff and myself. It invalidates the whole mob mentality that 5 or so people have which as you can see by reading this forum, is the whole club.

I must be confused here... so the best way to move these projects forward and gain the respect of the disc golf community is to never cease with the smart alec remarks and jabbing and poking at others? I'm not saying you are the only one guilty at this by any means, Jeremy. But I just would like to know WHEN THIS WILL STOP?? EVER??

I have been a "voiceless" member of the local DG community for some time now. But those days are over for me. From now on I will be a voting member of the SDGA and will be voicing my thoughts, feelings, and opinions POLITELY AND REASONABLY.

I fully agree with you and am just as excited to get Sekani established as soon as possible. But I do feel that because this will be a public course with several groups and agencies involved, this should have been a public project with all decisions and plans going through the proper channels (board, voting members, etc) from day ONE.

I really hope that moving forward we can all be mature about this, look at past mistakes and successes, as appropriate, and move forward with the best attempt at continuing those successes and avoiding those mistakes if at all possible. I am not going to try and change how you or anybody else thinks or feels about disc golf or the community involved with it. But when the need for discussion, planning, and even criticism arises, please make it CONSTRUCTIVE and not DESTRUCTIVE.

[coryreu]

Originally Posted by Sky Pilot

I lead the ACTION party

Thank you Jeff.

[coryreu]

Originally Posted by Sky Pilot

and Gordy....

...yeah. Not so much, Jeff.

[tomw]

Originally Posted by Simmeltron

I must be confused here... so the best way to move these projects forward and gain the respect of the disc golf community is to never cease with the smart alec remarks and jabbing and poking at others? I'm not saying you are the only one guilty at this by any means, Jeremy. But I just would like to know WHEN THIS WILL STOP?? EVER??

I have been a "voiceless" member of the local DG community for some time now. But those days are over for me. From now on I will be a voting member of the SDGA and will be voicing my thoughts, feelings, and opinions POLITELY AND REASONABLY.

I fully agree with you and am just as excited to get Sekani established as soon as possible. But I do feel that because this will be a public course with several groups and agencies involved, this should have been a public project with all decisions and plans going through the proper channels (board, voting members, etc) from day ONE.

I really hope that moving forward we can all be mature about this, look at past mistakes and successes, as appropriate, and move forward with the best attempt at continuing those successes and avoiding those mistakes if at all possible. I am not going to try and change how you or anybody else thinks or feels about disc golf or the community involved with it. But when the need for discussion, planning, and even criticism arises, please make it CONSTRUCTIVE and not DESTRUCTIVE.

Simmeltron, Do Not forget that ""I believe that private course owners in some cases may be threatened by the development of ‘wonderful’ potential courses that are free to the public. Hey, if I had my ‘own’ course and there was a lot of developing competition I might not like that too much. This is simply called ‘conflict of interest’. I believe that this is in part the explanation for why efforts to improve our local public courses are often frustrated."via Skypilot
, Thou i believe this IS completely true,This has not ever been addresed by Gordy. It is easy to see who does not like Jeff and Jeremy in the SDGA . And i think the MEMBERS who CARE about the direction of the SDGA need to voice themselfs NOW, TWargh!

[coryreu]

Originally Posted by tomw

Simmeltron, Do Not forget that ""I believe that private course owners in some cases may be threatened by the development of ‘wonderful’ potential courses that are free to the public. Hey, if I had my ‘own’ course and there was a lot of developing competition I might not like that too much. This is simply called ‘conflict of interest’. I believe that this is in part the explanation for why efforts to improve our local public courses are often frustrated."via Skypilot
, Thou i believe this IS completely true,This has not ever been denied by Gordy. It is easy to see who does not like Jeff and Jeremy in the SDGA . And i think the MEMBERS who CARE about the direction of the SDGA need to voice themselfs NOW, TWargh!

Tom, Jeff's statement is accusatory. He is stating what he himself might feel if Jeff owned his own course.
If it were me who owned a private course, I would pay this sort of statement no mind unless it was brought up to me, in person. Then I could make it clear how our own personal beliefs differed. Then, once that is clear, truths or falsehoods towards Jeff's accusations could become common knowledge. Never would I respond(let alone just simply deny), to an intended offensive statement like this on a forum. Never have I heard the topic come up in a meeting. So why should it come up on the forum?

[General Scales]

You guys all know that one good read from a Spokane Parks and Recreation member could very well soil all the good intentions that all of us have towards this heavenly piece of property. If they see we are so divided on so many issues and prefer to air out our dirty laundry in a public place, it won't end well.

[Wobbly Bob]

Originally Posted by tomw

Simmeltron, Do Not forget that ""I believe that private course owners in some cases may be threatened by the development of ‘wonderful’ potential courses that are free to the public. Hey, if I had my ‘own’ course and there was a lot of developing competition I might not like that too much. This is simply called ‘conflict of interest’. I believe that this is in part the explanation for why efforts to improve our local public courses are often frustrated."via Skypilot
, Thou i believe this IS completely true,This has not ever been denied by Gordy. It is easy to see who does not like Jeff and Jeremy in the SDGA . And i think the MEMBERS who CARE about the direction of the SDGA need to voice themselfs NOW, TWargh!

Tom, I know that Gordy doesn't feel this way. He has raised $40 over the last two weeks from benefits held out at Four Mound. Why would he do this if he had a 'conflict of interest' concerning Camp Sekani?

While you might feel this way as you have posted yourself, you can't claim to know how any one else feels. I know from talking with Gordy that he is as excited as anyone else in the SDGA to see Camp Sekani be developed into a great course(s).

I completely agree with you that SDGA Members, who care, need to voice their opinions about every thing our club undertakes.

Here's a link so that you may renew your membership to the SDGA. Or you can sign up online here. It takes a lot of $20 memberships to buy a basket.

[Simmeltron]

Originally Posted by tomw

Simmeltron, Do Not forget that ""I believe that private course owners in some cases may be threatened by the development of ‘wonderful’ potential courses that are free to the public. Hey, if I had my ‘own’ course and there was a lot of developing competition I might not like that too much. This is simply called ‘conflict of interest’. I believe that this is in part the explanation for why efforts to improve our local public courses are often frustrated."via Skypilot
, Thou i believe this IS completely true,This has not ever been denied by Gordy. It is easy to see who does not like Jeff and Jeremy in the SDGA . And i think the MEMBERS who CARE about the direction of the SDGA need to voice themselfs NOW, TWargh!

tomw, you are certainly entitled to our own beliefs and opinions. It is your right and I have no right trying to change your mind unless you asked me for some constructive conversation on the matter.

That said, I have a completely different opinion on the matter in regards to private course owners being threatened by Sekani and it is fully within my right to express that. No way whatsoever do I see that being the case. Threatened of WHAT???? Of the private courses in the Spokane area (T-N-T, Stimpi, Four Mound, am I missing any?), only one charges a fee at all to play. A measly $5 per car fee. I would gladly give more then that for all the work and money that Gordy puts into his courses. Besides, right now Gordy is putting ALL his collected monies into the Sekani fund. Threatened? I don't think so.

T-N-T and Stimpi Ridge also have nothing to be threatened by. They are clearly different and unique to anything that Sekani is going to become. I just don't see what logic there is for these private course owners (who built their courses simply for the love of the game, not to get rich, LOL) to be threatened at all by Sekani. Call me naive, but I see the great private courses in the area being a perfect complement to the great public courses we have. And I tell all my friends and family the very same thing and how lucky we are to have all these excellent choices to play in this area. I still believe that and will continue to.

I can't wait for Sekani to go in. And I will also fight to the end so that is goes in properly, with the best design possible, through all the proper channels and with all the proper parties involved. Yes, it may be a bit more complicated then just having one or two people go gung-ho designing and building on it and then having the club pay for it, but I would gladly wait a bit longer so that it goes in correctly.

This is a PUBLIC course, for the people who love the sport. Therefore, the people who love the sport should all get a say in the matter instead of having their choices, rights, and opinions made up for them.

[Simmeltron]

Originally Posted by coryreu

Tom, Jeff's statement is accusatory. He is stating what he himself might feel if Jeff owned his own course.
If it were me who owned a private course, I would pay this sort of statement no mind unless it was brought up to me, in person. Then I could make it clear how our own personal beliefs differed. Then, once that is clear, truths or falsehoods towards Jeff's accusations could become common knowledge. Never would I respond(let alone just simply deny), to an intended offensive statement like this on a forum. Never have I heard the topic come up in a meeting. So why should it come up on the forum?

Very well put sir. This is how this forum should be run.

[Simmeltron]

Originally Posted by LJ Jubner

I am going to have to call Bullshit on the idea that private course owners are worried about any new course.

LJ, while I may agree with your overall statement (what I quoted above), sorry bro we really need to try and not be so harsh and critical with our words (what I didn't quote), especially when eternalized on the Interwebs.

One thing that I have learned in my short 31 years, is that the past is the past. If you want to move forward, you are likely to trip and fall on your face at some point from all that looking back. What has happened, has happened, but I still have hope that we can get this done and be as diplomatic as possible in doing so.

Maybe I am being a bit too optimistic in my views, but hey, I'm new so give me a break.