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  #21  
Old July 21st, 2011, 02:25 PM
ScottW
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First, Dr. McDonald is an orthopaedic surgeon in Spokane Valley (not Post Falls and he is not a dentist), and come to find out that he made that donation out of his pocket and not throught the NWOS board of directors so as to save time and headache. So, if anyone is in need of any services from an orthopaedic surgeon hit up Dr. McDonald and thank him for supporting disc golf.

Second, I like the discussion that we have going here regarding the format for the F.O. As I stated previously I liked Jeremy's ideas of format changes but I don't necessarily think it is the best idea - not that my idea really matters as Jack has the final say. My personal belief is that playing all 3 courses is the way to go. I don't know how you could call it the Farragut Open without using all 3 courses. I like the idea of getting some things cleaned up on NorthStar and perhaps seeing if we could coordinate some volunteers to put down string/mandos to tighten up the course a bit.

I DO like the idea of the shotgun start for pool B on Sunday with the players in Pool A having assigned tee times. Not sure about splitting the Pro and Am divisions into different pools though.
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  #22  
Old July 21st, 2011, 02:32 PM
Kris C
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What's the point of playing at Farragut, with three full courses that all offer different challenges if we're not going to utilize them? My opinion - use all three.
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  #23  
Old July 21st, 2011, 02:35 PM
ScottW
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Christian Dietrich had this to say on the Garden City Flyers Forum - he's followed the link I provided to this website and I thought it was interesting:

Christian

can't wait

To add to the INWS forums chatter, I definitely support the pros NOT playing North Star, even though it's always been the Wreckreator rather than NS that gives me trouble. Two times thru AWOL and one thru the wreckreator sounds legit to me!
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  #24  
Old July 21st, 2011, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottW View Post
Christian Dietrich had this to say on the Garden City Flyers Forum - he's followed the link I provided to this website and I thought it was interesting:

Christian

can't wait

To add to the INWS forums chatter, I definitely support the pros NOT playing North Star, even though it's always been the Wreckreator rather than NS that gives me trouble. Two times thru AWOL and one thru the wreckreator sounds legit to me!
I look at Northstar the same way that I look at Corbin. It can be tricky but most of the time is quite forgiving. There is only one hole on Northstar that I am happy when I par it. That would be 7 and it's only because I have an issue with the dog leg on it.

I also agree with the shotgun start and the tee times. Tee times would only be pro's or pro's and advanced ams?

I do also agree that all three courses should be played as they are what makes Farragut the best place in the Inland Northwest to play. I will be up there all week for the Farragut open and am more than willing to go lay out OB line on the days prior to the tournament. Maybe if we string OB all over Northstar, it will be just as challenging to everyone as DBD and Wreckreator.

I like all the discussion on this as well. It's going to be the one tournament that everyone should play. To those that don't, sucks to be you.
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  #25  
Old July 21st, 2011, 04:37 PM
ScottW
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Depending on how the grouping goes and how many holes we have I think it would be feasible to have all of Pool A start with assigned tee times with the top Men's Pro Open card going last so more players could follow them.
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  #26  
Old July 21st, 2011, 06:27 PM
Yoduh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benihana View Post
I personally like the idea of the Farragut Open playing all three courses. Considering there is only one tournament being held there all year, it would utilize what each course has to offer. If the complaints are having no looks within the circle, it sounds like course maintenance instead of layout. If the complaints are distance, get better at the must birdies. There are a few holes that could stand to be changed but inventive O.B. could stand to make them more challenging. Holes like Northstars 1,6,8,17 all have unique qualities (some of which have been incorperated into DBD like H1's rock wall.)

I personally think playing alternate locations on DBD is a bad decision because those lanes and paths haven't been broken in yet. There has been only one hole change in the past 6+ months and i feel we will fall into the same problem being used to discredit northstar.

The shotgun start for ams and tee times for pros sounds great and would really provide an audience for that lead card.

-the argument for the playing the best SSA rated course would only hold water if you are trying to find the best DBD player. If someone wins the title of Farragut Open Champion i would like to know they earned by conquering all three courses =)
North Star allows for alot of luck and totally gives a HUGE advantage to thumbers and over hand shots. There isn't a lot of decision making and not alot of risk reward all things that are in plethora on DBD.

There will be much more work put in by me and the Justin (park guy) on the DBD. Hole 1 will have a long pin about 50 feet deep and slightly to the right. Hole 4 will be about 90 ft deeper. Hole 6 will have an alt deep and to the right and it will be a par 5. Hole 8 will have a long tee. Hole 10 will have a pin deep and right. Peaceful Prairie hole 12's alt will not be used but there will be another fairway cut and it will be a true par four. Hole 18 will have a pin 40 feet right. The alt course is the true Dubble Black and the first course would be known as Single Black. Look for SSA of about 60.

I'm not a fan of courses where you can throw almost the exact same throw as the guy that shot -10 and you score a -5. Luck isn't golf in my opinion.
Tee times would be sweet in that it would act as sort of a final 9. When the Ams are done golfing they could make their way over to watch the finishing holes if the felt like it. Having the Open players finish last would also allow the Tournament directors time to get all the scores finalized and the series organizers time to do all the am series points.

As far as the ams playing order of courses I would think that if the open men play SBD-Wreck-DBD Ams would play North-SBD-Wreck
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  #27  
Old July 21st, 2011, 07:19 PM
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Adv Am should be in the same pool as Open they are the next up and coming guys
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  #28  
Old July 21st, 2011, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by organic View Post
Adv Am should be in the same pool as Open they are the next up and coming guys
agreed! Unless for some reason their is lopsided registration..
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  #29  
Old July 21st, 2011, 10:02 PM
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Im sorry for the confusion of saying splitting ams and pros when im really meaning a division between intermediate ams playing NS,DBD sunday Wreck(shotgun) and advanced ams/ Pros would play Wreck, NS, sunday DBD tee times.

Im heading up to Farragut Sunday for league and hope to capture some Northstar pics that might convince a few of you.
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  #30  
Old July 22nd, 2011, 09:51 AM
Yoduh
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North Star could be a decent course with a lot of work. I like the comparrison of North Star to Corbin. It's a little tricky but not a professional course by any means. I ran 2 PDGA events at Corbin Park the 2nd and 3rd year of the INWS and even though I had more cash added than most other events I could only get 11 and 12 Open players to come. Most events were drawing at least 20. These types of courses just don't measure true golf skill. There are way to many greens that leave no putts on the North Star. The lack of decisions to be made on the course make it really easy.
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  #31  
Old July 22nd, 2011, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Yoduh View Post
North Star could be a decent course with a lot of work. I like the comparrison of North Star to Corbin. It's a little tricky but not a professional course by any means. I ran 2 PDGA events at Corbin Park the 2nd and 3rd year of the INWS and even though I had more cash added than most other events I could only get 11 and 12 Open players to come. Most events were drawing at least 20. These types of courses just don't measure true golf skill. There are way to many greens that leave no putts on the North Star. The lack of decisions to be made on the course make it really easy.
I don't think it's putting area that bothers me so much about Northstar. I actually think the putting area's are good besides maybe one hole (8). I just don't think the course is technical enough to test true skill. As you stated earlier, it favors overhand shots most of the time. It's definitely a course that could use some mando's and some ob line to make it on par with the difficulty of the other two courses.

With that being said, I don't care what courses we play. I just want to play damn it!
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  #32  
Old July 23rd, 2011, 06:38 PM
Kris C
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The Farragut Fundraiser at Cherry Hill was a huge success! Special thanks to Jack and Scott Wardian for all of their help, and Ben Squires and his crew for moving all the baskets in between rounds! With only 20 registered players, we raised a little over $400 for the Farragut Open!!! Here are the winners:
Open - Ben Squires
ADV - Josh Fish
INT - Shane Wellner
Women's INT - Carrie Wardian
Ace Pot - Cole Swanson $51
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Last edited by Kris C; July 24th, 2011 at 07:32 AM.
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  #33  
Old July 23rd, 2011, 08:32 PM
ScottW
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So lets see, with 3 cash-only sponsors so far we have $900 added cash not counting the cash/schwag total that Rapid Fire will be kicking in and the shirt guy (Big Webbed Feet.com) both totaling over $250 worth of cash & stuff. Super badass! Nice work Kris and all who supported his efforts. Nice to see the little ol' NIDGC doing some nice work to improve a local tourney payout for everyone else.

I do like the idea of playing NS even though I know many don't like it. It still has some quality holes, is a decent course, and as of now DBD is just the one course. I am guessing it will stay that way and it will be for the best. Everyone will have to play the same stuff and deal with it all. I think if certain players have ideas for different layouts then they should use them for other events. I think for the true Farragut Open it should be all 3 courses in some way being used.
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  #34  
Old July 23rd, 2011, 09:47 PM
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Nice Job on the fundraising guys!! I would have came but the arthritis on my throwing pinky flared up for no reason yesterday and I need to get the swelling down and get back to practicing for worlds.

DBD will be chalked full of alternates before the event. It's really a shame that you seem to doubt whether or not it will happen considering I have been making it happen since the word go and I personally told you that it will indeed happen. Also strange is your assertion that it would only work well for another event. Do you not enjoy the quality of course that I have already designed? Am I not capable of providing a well thought out challenge for our golfers? Now you and I both know the answers to these questions but my guess is you are making the decision that is probably not trying to piss the most golfers off. We also both know that everybody is going to play either way. The most important goal as a tournament course facilitator is to provide a course(s) that will crown the best golfer of the weekend.
For west side golfers reading this our closest comparison here to your courses would be Seatac (with 15 trees removed) vs. Northpark(with shorter holes but on a much bigger property with no ceiling shots).

Here is a list of the quality holes on Northstar. Hole 1 Hole 3 (sucks to be lefty) Hole 5(cut down one tree) hole 6 (teepad needs to be squared to the fairway,sucks to be a lefty) hole 17(sucks to be a lefty). Those holes to me provide the most scoring swing and shot execution. The greens are fair (maybe not 5). Generally the shots are executable and don't allow a cheesy thumber to get a birdie(except 5). Hole 2 is super easy and 4is not far behind! This course in general is brutal on leftys. Holes 7 (sucks to be a lefty) 8 9 all fall into ridiculousy (just made that word up) hard to 2 and a dumb four is possible. The idea is to throw a smart (easy drive) make an up shot and stay outta trouble. Hole 10 is almost a good hole but a thumber makes it soooooo easy that everybody has to work to get a bird and they get a drop in 2. Hole 11 is just weird 180 foot shot as is 16. Hole 12 is easy(leftys have to work).. When I think of this course holes 11-16 just kind of blend together(with another sucks to be lefty hole in there). Nothing special at all. Mostly teeshots (upshots) that require some luck. Hole 18 is a must bird and very righty friendly..
Can't say I'd be up there playing Wreck or DBD and would be longing to go play NorthStar. It would not be the same without North because we wouldn't be playing a birdie or die luck course.
That being said I am still doing my part to help out. I will be reserving the camp ground for golfers and camping will be available for $5 a person per night. I have a line on kegs that we will hopefully have in the camp ground. We will have music and a big bonfire with tons of DBD campfire wood! I also have a meeting with a caterer to possibly get dinner served on Saturday night. I will keep you posted on the fun part as we get closer.
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  #35  
Old July 24th, 2011, 09:03 PM
ScottW
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All valid points Jeremy and I do like the work done to make DBD what it is today and look forward to seeing what it can be. That said I still like NorthStar personally. Plus, keep in mind that I have no say in layout that is ultimately up to Jack so your case is best plead to him and I do think it is safe to say that he will choose the format that will piss off the fewest players. The fewer players you piss off the more you make happy.
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  #36  
Old July 25th, 2011, 01:25 AM
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I think most serious pro's want to play DBD twice but we are in the same pool with advanced guys that want the birdies and to not get their butt's kicked twice.
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  #37  
Old July 25th, 2011, 07:34 AM
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I think most serious pro's want to play DBD twice but we are in the same pool with advanced guys that want the birdies and to not get their butt's kicked twice.
I am playing advanced and can tell you that I don't mind getting schooled twice by DBD. I do mind a tournament full of pissy players as it doesn't seem to build that wonderful tournament atmosphere that keeps us coming back. As I have stated previous, I will play whatever. Hell, if the nine hole was there, I'd even play that for a tournament round.
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  #38  
Old July 25th, 2011, 12:15 PM
Yoduh
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oh, c'mon now. A tournament full of pissy players at Farragut? I've played every Farragut open since 2000 and I'm here to tell ya right now even if we played DBD 3 times it wouldn't happen!
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  #39  
Old July 25th, 2011, 06:20 PM
ScottW
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Now now, lets not make generalizations and assumptions about all Advanced players. I will be playing Advanced (though whether or not I should is a better argument left for another day) and I would have no problem getting schooled, spanked, demoralized, humiliated, embarrassed, beat down, or however else you want to describe it by DBD twice. Hell, I'd play it three or four times if that was the format that Jack decided on. I understand why many of the Pros wouldn't want to play NorthStar as it doesn't fit their game or their likes as well as the others. My thoughts are if NS is best played with thumbers instead of controlled backhand or forehand shots then get better at throwing a thumber then everyone else and if you won't do it then I hope you're real good at locating your other shots. I won't do the thumber trick not because I think it is a weak cheater shot but because I hate throwing them and think I become a better player by throwing other shots. That said, I know sometimes thumbers are just necessary so I use them on occasion. I don't have a problem if the tournament overall forces players to use a wide range of shot selections (even the dreaded overhand) because players should have them all incorporated into their game. That's why I dabble with throwing lefty backhand because I think in the long run it will make me more competitive and will make me a better player - and because I hate throwing righty sidearm. You gotta have the tricks and use them all reasonably well and sometimes that might give lesser skilled players a higher likelihood of having a competing score with you. Again, just my 2 cents.
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  #40  
Old July 25th, 2011, 08:41 PM
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I throw thumbers 300 feet and tommy's 280 but I think they are WEAK!!! There is little to no skill involved. Most people either can or can't I remember the first time I threw one it traveled 300 feet. It didn't take the exact flight I had planned but I adjusted and the next one went exactly where I wanted it. I wish after throwing 2 backhands I would reach max D.. NOT
It does make a lot of sense that tournament hardened and TD extrordanaire Jack makes the decisions about we the unknowing players play..
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