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  • CT: should it stay or should it go?

    Sam,
    I know you love the CT section. You get a charge out of arguing here at times. Just like myself and a whole slew of others.
    And I'm an avid user of the section. Part time abuser. Sentenced served and lessons learning.
    When we first talked about your new site I strongly suggested CT not be included. MOST of my posts here are an effort to see the section one day disappear. Not because I don't like it, but because I think it's bad for the growth of the sport. It also contributes to nice people being mean to other nice people, but I think that's more the internet's fault than yours.
    Whether it's civic leaders or parents of potential disc golfers reading our personal rants, interesting political and religious views or drug/alcohol references, I don't see how this section does anything to promote the sport. (the occasional DG related CT subject aside- which typically just denigrates into an insult fest at the earliest opportunity).
    In what way are the personal feuds and posting of links adding to DG?
    AND- How come nearly every time a moderator mentions the CT section to me they say the same thing- That they wish the CT section would go away, but they feel they are in the minority? From those that have stated their preference it appears even among the moderators those that wish the CT section gone are not truly in a minority. Just a voting minority.
    I am NOT criticizing YOU Sam. I am simply, once again, questioning whether the section is needed, beneficial or even hurtful to the overall cause of promoting disc golf. And if, contrary to nearly all evidence to date, this section must remain, why not require, nay demand, a more civil tone from it's users.
    Is it about quieting the masses, or just the thought of having to reign yourself in as well that is more troubling? (added later- that sounds harsh when I read it back- try again with me using an inquisitive, even plaintive, tone)
    (I am being sincere and and attempting a civil discourse. I find a correlation between this topic and when the PDGA changed the rules on drug and alcohol use. It wasn't done to punish anyone. It was done to better the sport.)
    Last edited by Wes Hansen; February 2nd, 2011, 07:41 PM. Reason: I will NOT provide a reason for editing. I find this box overly demanding.

  • #2
    I fail to see how the CT section takes away from the sport and - as such - it will remain. Please to remember... you have to be a registered member who is logged in just to see these boards. If civic leaders or reporters or even potential sponsors log in, they will see that we are a typical cross-section of society with some who are assholes and some who are saints.

    Really... I would rather these people log in and see that we are REAL people with real opinions on matters that extend beyond our sport than to think that we do not look like any other cross-section of our culture.

    In other words... it stays because we're keeping it real.

    Oh... and admitting that your posts are designed to get that section removed is bullshit. You post what you post because you're an asshat... kinda like me. But were this your tack, such a position would not sit well with me. Not at all.
    ďI believe I can hit 18 greens, hit every fairway, you know ó Vision 54, which means you birdie every hole, thatís in the back of my mind. I want to putt better, chip better. That day when I hit 18 greens and one putt, Iíll know Iím a complete golfer. Will that ever happen? Iím not sure, but itís possible. The 54 vision is always in the back of my mind.Ē
    ~Annika SŲrenstam

    Comment


    • #3
      What happens when a city neighborhood becomes run down? Unemployment is high, as are school dropout rates. Drug and alcohol use is above the city average, as is prostitution. City leaders see this, and spend millions of dollars on urban renewal projects to clean up that section of the city. In the end, the neighborhood looks pretty nice. Houses are better kept. New businesses emerege. Drug use and prostitution are no longer as evident. Problem solved right?
      Or did the problem just move to another neighborhood? (Hint: The problem just moved to another neighborhood).

      What would happen if the CT section suddenly went away? Would people stop posting controversial topics for the sole purpose of garnering a reaction? Doubtful. Would users of the forum suddenly stop being asshats? Would we all start getting along? Or would the problems just move to the Off Topic section?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Sam View Post
        I fail to see how the CT section takes away from the sport and - as such - it will remain. Please to remember... you have to be a registered member who is logged in just to see these boards. If civic leaders or reporters or even potential sponsors log in, they will see that we are a typical cross-section of society with some who are assholes and some who are saints.

        Really... I would rather these people log in and see that we are REAL people with real opinions on matters that extend beyond our sport than to think that we do not look like any other cross-section of our culture.

        In other words... it stays because we're keeping it real.

        Oh... and admitting that your posts are designed to get that section removed is bullshit. You post what you post because you're an asshat... kinda like me. But were this your tack, such a position would not sit well with me. Not at all.
        Everyone has an argument for or against keeping this section and Sam seems pretty adamant about keeping it. However, I would like to point out that when I went to the Blue Lake course approval meeting I was talking to a few people from the city who mentioned they had come to this site and did quite a bit of reading about our "community". Both of them mentioned how TERRIBLE this section makes us look.

        People come here to get a sense of what were all about, but this garbage is what they come away with. They don't come away impressed with our 1000s of hours of work party volunteering, or hours of TD volunteering etc. Nope. They come away shaking their heads at the incessant petty squabbling, digital chest-thumping, thinly veiled trolling and rampant douchebaggery. You might think this section is "keeping it real.", but I would argue that when we have a potential course shot down in flames because of this crap... that is even "more real".

        Weigh the potential good -vs- the potential bad and I think this section is bad for us all in the long run.
        "You won't like me when I am angry, because I always back up my rage with facts and documented sources". - The Credible Hulk

        Comment


        • #5
          The mind is like a steel trap - once closed, nothing gets in.

          Scott - Would users of the forum suddenly stop being asshats?

          Wes - Not because I don't like it, but because I think it's bad for the growth of the sport. It also contributes to nice people being mean to other nice people, but I think that's more the internet's fault than yours.

          Bullseye - Both of them mentioned how TERRIBLE this section makes us look.
          Weigh the potential good -vs- the potential bad and I think this section is bad for us all in the long run.

          You guys are unbelievable. You spout off about hate crap - with nary a shade of embarrassment - and fail to see that it is you who initiate the ugly discourse, back biting and anger you so doggedly crusade against. Your contrivances are no different than plain cloths cops in the ranks of peaceful demonstrators who commit acts of violence and point fingers at the crowd.

          Whatever weight you wield around here, could you please use it to inform those who think anything on this this site is "terrible" to get a life, face the reality of human diversity and the progressive nature of NWDGN.

          The last time I visited a conservative site I was banned inside of 3 minutes. There are voices some people just don't want to hear - that's tragic.
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RQrOHpJKvQ - it's true!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Duster View Post

            Bullseye - Both of them mentioned how TERRIBLE this section makes us look.
            Weigh the potential good -vs- the potential bad and I think this section is bad for us all in the long run.

            You guys are unbelievable. You spout off about hate crap - with nary a shade of embarrassment - and fail to see that it is you who initiate the ugly discourse, back biting and anger you so crusade against. Your contrivances are no different than those of plain cloths cops, in the ranks of peaceful demonstrators, committing acts of violence and pointing fingers at the crowd.

            Whatever weight you wield around could you please use it to inform those who think anything on this this site is "terrible" to get a life, face the reality of human diversity and the progressive nature of NWDGN.

            BTW, the last time I visited a conservative site I was banned inside of 3 minutes. There are some voices some people just don't want to hear - that's tragic.
            With all due respect, what are you talking about?

            I take the time to point out what a city official told me hurts our objective of getting courses installed and all of a sudden I'm the guy writing the crap they thought was negative?

            Feel free to do a little research on me and show me an instance where I initiated a fight with someone. I don't go looking for a fight and I don't go trolling people either. I go out of my way to try to see both sides of an argument before I start chiming in, and when I do chime in I do my best to be reasonably respectful. Obviously, I don't agree with everyone, but I don't think there is a person out there who knows me that will argue that I don't have the best interests of disc golf at the forefront of my mind.

            You might disagree with the idea of removing this section of the forum, but I think you are way off base laying the issue at my feet.
            "You won't like me when I am angry, because I always back up my rage with facts and documented sources". - The Credible Hulk

            Comment


            • #7
              Let's assume he was talking about me. It would be a mistake to direct those comments at you.

              I think it's good we opened the discussion about the CT section again. But I think Sam makes it perfectly clear it will always remain part of this site.

              Well, then can a better effort be made to clean it up? It can serve its purpose without all the pointless fighting. And, no I don't think it's hypocritical for me to suggest that. (Which is better, a drug addict on a binge or one seeking help!)

              Duster- I must disagree on the "progressive nature" of this site. I think progress would be to acknowledge areas which could use improvement and to attempt to better them. It also appears YOU were the first one in these new posts to feel it necessary to be snide- not us guys.

              We'll record you as a "likes CT."

              Comment


              • #8
                Bullseye - I take the time to point out what a city official told me hurts our objective of getting courses installed and all of a sudden I'm the guy writing the crap they thought was negative?
                That is very disturbing. A political operative insinuating his politically charged opinion on free speech. You, if you were in any way representing NWDGN, should have braced that SOB with a primer on what it means to be an American citizen. Maybe you could provide his name as I would feel obligated to file a complaint with the governor's office and state attorney general.

                YOU were the first one in these new posts to feel it necessary to be snide
                On the contrary, Wes. My point was and continues to be accurately stated in my post above and in no way am I trying to put anybody on the defensive. Your opinion is as valid as mine on how we feel about a single topic of discussion.

                You and a couple others have stated your feelings about CT and I just don't understand why you and others continue to foment an uncomfortable atmosphere in that topic, unless it is deliberate.

                Let it go or at the very least just tolerate it.
                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RQrOHpJKvQ - it's true!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Uh, I'm really starting to run out of things to say about how blind people are to their own actions. Is no one self aware?
                  And trying to interpret all the various ways people can twist a sentence is mind-numbing.

                  I think you are very into free speech. Unless it differs from your opinion? Why does my free speech bother you? What I really hear is... You are welcome to your right to free speech, now will you please shut up.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Duster View Post
                    That is very disturbing. A political operative insinuating his politically charged opinion on free speech. You, if you were in any way representing NWDGN, should have braced that SOB with a primer on what it means to be an American citizen. Maybe you could provide his name as I would feel obligated to file a complaint with the governor's office and state attorney general.
                    Wow, are you serious? I don't know you, but I think you must be incredibly naive and perhaps more than a bit (over)reactionary.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I disagree with everything in Wes' second to last post... other than the fact that the CT section will remain. Oh... and the hypocrisy part of him being a major contributor to the "nastiness".
                      ďI believe I can hit 18 greens, hit every fairway, you know ó Vision 54, which means you birdie every hole, thatís in the back of my mind. I want to putt better, chip better. That day when I hit 18 greens and one putt, Iíll know Iím a complete golfer. Will that ever happen? Iím not sure, but itís possible. The 54 vision is always in the back of my mind.Ē
                      ~Annika SŲrenstam

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        How about... We play LT at 2pm today. You win CT stays, I win CT goes.
                        Come on.... chicken.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          My apologies. I did not mean to imply Sam is poultry. I think of him more as a majestic raptor, soaring gracefully.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Maybe the least one might tell the city official is that there is some difference between the acts of folks hukking discs and posting on forums. It's a bigger difference than forehand to backhand. More like the spectrum of Fox News to DemocracyNow!

                            It really is quite amazing what they can train a disc golfer to do.
                            The Corporate Empire is NOT a Constitutional Republic...
                            ...but it plays one on TV.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Wes Hansen View Post
                              How about... We play LT at 2pm today. You win CT stays, I win CT goes.
                              Come on.... chicken.
                              Normally, I would take the 45 minutes it would take to meet this challenge and kick your ass at this game we love.

                              Sadly, work takes precedence, so... CT section stays.
                              ďI believe I can hit 18 greens, hit every fairway, you know ó Vision 54, which means you birdie every hole, thatís in the back of my mind. I want to putt better, chip better. That day when I hit 18 greens and one putt, Iíll know Iím a complete golfer. Will that ever happen? Iím not sure, but itís possible. The 54 vision is always in the back of my mind.Ē
                              ~Annika SŲrenstam

                              Comment

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