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  • line of play definition

    from the PDGA site:

    "B. Casual Obstacles to a Stance: A player may obtain relief only from the following obstacles that are in the stance or run-up area: casual water, loose leaves or debris, broken branches no longer connected to a tree, motor vehicles, harmful insects or animals, players' equipment, people, or any item or area specifically designated by the director before the round. The player must first attempt to remove the obstacle. If it is impractical to move the obstacle, the player's lie may be relocated to the nearest lie which is no closer to the hole, is on the line of play, and is not more than five meters from the original lie, as agreed to by a majority of the group or an official (unless greater casual relief is announced by the director)."

    When dealing with casual water, what is the definition of "line of play"? And can the player take five meters to get a better shot even if one meter of relief would get you out of the water?

  • #2
    Originally posted by vapor View Post
    from the PDGA site:

    "B. Casual Obstacles to a Stance: A player may obtain relief only from the following obstacles that are in the stance or run-up area: casual water, loose leaves or debris, broken branches no longer connected to a tree, motor vehicles, harmful insects or animals, players' equipment, people, or any item or area specifically designated by the director before the round. The player must first attempt to remove the obstacle. If it is impractical to move the obstacle, the player's lie may be relocated to the nearest lie which is no closer to the hole, is on the line of play, and is not more than five meters from the original lie, as agreed to by a majority of the group or an official (unless greater casual relief is announced by the director)."

    When dealing with casual water, what is the definition of "line of play"? And can the player take five meters to get a better shot even if one meter of relief would get you out of the water?
    The line of play is a straight line from the pin through the center of your disc.

    I would say no unless the TD has specific rules for the hole. But I am mean that way.

    Hath this whole world been mired in madness?
    Remain ye men of faculty complete,
    Of full arithmetic and prudence fair,
    Attending to our noble bond and contract?
    Or does here stand the last remaining man
    To give a fig for rules and order yet,
    No noble savage, but a stave unbroken
    Who loves the law and bids it no misdeed.
    I値l not be bent to lawlessness. Mark it nought, if we be men of honour.

    Comment


    • #3
      The exception for the line of play going from the pin thru the center of your disc is when there's a mando you haven't yet passed, the line of play goes from the mando thru the center of your disc.

      Comment


      • #4
        Not to encourage thread drift but this question is related.

        What is the correct ruling for a large debris pile from a work party that was not delclared a casual obstacle by the TD before the round starts. It would be impractical to move the obstacle and could be viewed as a safety hazard if the pile is large enough.

        1) Are you allowed casual relief (up to five meters)(no penalty)?

        2) Or do you have to play it as it lies?

        Comment


        • #5
          Presumably, the brush pile contains a bunch of unattached branches, logs and twigs. The player landing in there may try to remove the debris crossing their lie and run-up OR take up to 5m free relief behind their current lie until out of the brush pile.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Chuck Kennedy View Post
            Presumably, the brush pile contains a bunch of unattached branches, logs and twigs. The player landing in there may try to remove the debris crossing their lie and run-up OR take up to 5m free relief behind their current lie until out of the brush pile.
            Sure, as long as the lie is moved away from the pin along the line of play 5m or less, I can live with that. But you'd be throwing directly behind the brush pile and any follow through would have you stepping on the brush pile. You cannot move farther back to allow for your follow through.

            Hath this whole world been mired in madness?
            Remain ye men of faculty complete,
            Of full arithmetic and prudence fair,
            Attending to our noble bond and contract?
            Or does here stand the last remaining man
            To give a fig for rules and order yet,
            No noble savage, but a stave unbroken
            Who loves the law and bids it no misdeed.
            I値l not be bent to lawlessness. Mark it nought, if we be men of honour.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Sausage Fingers View Post
              Sure, as long as the lie is moved away from the pin along the line of play 5m or less, I can live with that. But you'd be throwing directly behind the brush pile and any follow through would have you stepping on the brush pile. You cannot move farther back to allow for your follow through.


              you would have ample room for follow through if you scoot far enough back. 5 meters is a lot of room.
              Fear of any kind is the number one enemy of all golfers regardless of ball-striking and shot-making capabilities.

              Comment


              • #8
                This thread has been great learnings make benefits glorious nation of Kazakhstan. So the relief is always 5 meters backwards, and never to the left or right 5 meters (of the original disc landing spot/marker), correct? Now I see why line of play was being emphasized.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by mowens404 View Post
                  you would have ample room for follow through if you scoot far enough back. 5 meters is a lot of room.
                  No. Read the emphasized words again:

                  Originally posted by vapor View Post
                  from the PDGA site:

                  "B. Casual Obstacles to a Stance: A player may obtain relief only from the following obstacles that are in the stance or run-up area: casual water, loose leaves or debris, broken branches no longer connected to a tree, motor vehicles, harmful insects or animals, players' equipment, people, or any item or area specifically designated by the director before the round. The player must first attempt to remove the obstacle. If it is impractical to move the obstacle, the player's lie may be relocated to the nearest lie which is no closer to the hole, is on the line of play, and is not more than five meters from the original lie, as agreed to by a majority of the group or an official (unless greater casual relief is announced by the director)."
                  That to me says you can move your lie to just behind the scrap pile, but not far enough back that your follow through has room before stepping on the scrap pile. I could be wrong, it has happened before...

                  Hath this whole world been mired in madness?
                  Remain ye men of faculty complete,
                  Of full arithmetic and prudence fair,
                  Attending to our noble bond and contract?
                  Or does here stand the last remaining man
                  To give a fig for rules and order yet,
                  No noble savage, but a stave unbroken
                  Who loves the law and bids it no misdeed.
                  I値l not be bent to lawlessness. Mark it nought, if we be men of honour.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Sausage Fingers View Post
                    No. Read the emphasized words again:



                    That to me says you can move your lie to just behind the scrap pile, but not far enough back that your follow through has room before stepping on the scrap pile. I could be wrong, it has happened before...

                    But you forgot to emphasize these words: "as agreed to by a majority of the group or an official". You could argue that too close would not give you a safe shot.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Scott View Post
                      But you forgot to emphasize these words: "as agreed to by a majority of the group or an official". You could argue that too close would not give you a safe shot.
                      Nothing says your shot has to be safe. Unplayable Lie has been replaced with Optional Relief (805.03c) and incurs a one stroke penalty. That will let you move to any spot on the line of play no closer to the hole.

                      The majority of the group cannot decide to make a new rule because they want to do so...well unless you are playing in the Legends division, they can do whatever they want...

                      Hath this whole world been mired in madness?
                      Remain ye men of faculty complete,
                      Of full arithmetic and prudence fair,
                      Attending to our noble bond and contract?
                      Or does here stand the last remaining man
                      To give a fig for rules and order yet,
                      No noble savage, but a stave unbroken
                      Who loves the law and bids it no misdeed.
                      I値l not be bent to lawlessness. Mark it nought, if we be men of honour.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        A group of disc golfers should use the "Spirit of Game" as a guideline. That is, if someone is to throw their disc into an obstacle, an obstacle that was present before the disc was thrown, would they deserve to move their lie to an area that was safe but also easier to throw? A golfer should want to take on the challenge of getting out of the mess they threw into. Its a fine line between being safe and making the shot easier and I have seen disc golfers take the easy way out waaaay to many times. I understand being safe but as sausage fingers has stated a golfers lie should be nearest to the original lie. If the subsequent lie only allows you to throw a 15' pitch out, then that's "your medicine." A golfer shouldn't back up another 10' so they can have a run-up and a full follow through and make the hole easier to complete. /rant off/

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Sausage Fingers View Post
                          Nothing says your shot has to be safe. Unplayable Lie has been replaced with Optional Relief (805.03c) and incurs a one stroke penalty. That will let you move to any spot on the line of play no closer to the hole.

                          The majority of the group cannot decide to make a new rule because they want to do so...well unless you are playing in the Legends division, they can do whatever they want...



                          B. Casual Obstacles to a Stance: A player may obtain relief only from the following obstacles that are in the stance or run-up area:

                          What is the official definition of run-up area? does that include your follow through? or does that mean up until the disc leaves your hand?
                          Fear of any kind is the number one enemy of all golfers regardless of ball-striking and shot-making capabilities.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            i love this thread...

                            Originally posted by mowens404 View Post
                            B. Casual Obstacles to a Stance: A player may obtain relief only from the following obstacles that are in the stance or run-up area:

                            What is the official definition of run-up area? does that include your follow through? or does that mean up until the disc leaves your hand?
                            You probably know how I feel about it. If you can stand and throw without an obstacle to your stance or run-up area, then the follow through is on you. If the follow through is not safe from that lie, use a stand and throw technique with no follow through AND DON'T THROW YOUR SHOT TO THAT PLACE NEXT TIME!

                            But really, if there are large plies of debris on the course the TD should have rules to account for that problem.

                            Hath this whole world been mired in madness?
                            Remain ye men of faculty complete,
                            Of full arithmetic and prudence fair,
                            Attending to our noble bond and contract?
                            Or does here stand the last remaining man
                            To give a fig for rules and order yet,
                            No noble savage, but a stave unbroken
                            Who loves the law and bids it no misdeed.
                            I値l not be bent to lawlessness. Mark it nought, if we be men of honour.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Really... If you can take a stance by only moving a reasonable amount debris (if desired), then YOU need to make the right decision on the TYPE of throw that will result in NO injury.

                              Just because you aren't presented with a perfect stance area doesn't mean that you can move to your lie to your liking. There are plenty of different throws available to get your disc towards the target.

                              Yes, the "spirit of the game" should take priority. Play it as it lies.

                              IMHO, the only time you should get relief from a debris pile is when the pile is very large and you can't get at least one supporting point (foot) contacting solid ground for safety's sake. Pretty much the same throwing option as being in a large bushy plant/tree.

                              Comment

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