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  • #31
    Originally posted by Ol' Bob View Post
    If cigarettes were only tobacco, we might not be having this discussion.
    I agree and disagree with that statement. Entitlement will make any person complain and if persuasive enough more will follow.

    It boils down to respect. Respect those around you, plain and simple.
    "Love is not primarily a relationship to a specific person. Love is an attitude, an ordination of character which determines the relatedness of the person to the whole world as a whole, not toward one object of love.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Ol' Bob View Post
      I agree with Honest Abe on this one.

      That said, the formulation of popular brand cigarettes is a crime against the human species for profit. It is probably as much an abuse of the plant as it is of the smoker. If cigarettes were only tobacco, we might not be having this discussion.

      i totally agree with this! yes if cigarettes were "pure" like they started out as then we wouldnt be having all this hoopla about carcinageons and them killing us. and they wouldnt be addictive. why cant we just make our tobacco without the chemicals that they feel they need to put in them?????! whats wrong with just a good old tobacco leaf dried roled and smoked? that would be much better for everybody.
      Team HOSER:dancing:
      Team OLY:cheerleader:
      Team Meteor

      "Oh man, my burps are giving me whiplash"

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      • #33
        Originally posted by TYVEK View Post
        i totally agree with this! yes if cigarettes were "pure" like they started out as then we wouldnt be having all this hoopla about carcinageons and them killing us. and they wouldnt be addictive. why cant we just make our tobacco without the chemicals that they feel they need to put in them?????! whats wrong with just a good old tobacco leaf dried roled and smoked? that would be much better for everybody.
        There is definitely a lot of nasty stuff in cigarettes. But tobacco is still addictive and carcinogenic and unhealthy to smoke even when it's straight off the plant.

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        • #34
          My two cents are that outdoor cigarette smoke is quite honestly the least of our worries as a society. Sure, the smoker should be alarmed that they are directly inhaling the carcinogens associated with tobacco, particularly the additives used, and indoor second hand smoke can build to toxic levels quick.
          I think that in the broad spectrum of things, there is a flood of other toxins in our society that far outweighs the slight addition of outdoor second hand smoke that may set off flares of asthma or sinusitis, or even general discomfort. My intuition tells me that in most cases those conditions are much more largely caused by emissions from cars, fumes from VOCs in virtually everything from your furniture, paint, carpets, and cleaning agents and more, and general pollution from the industrial dependency and lack of environmental stringencies in other aspects of our society. To start blaming the second hand smoke of a guy in a park is ludicrous, IMO, and there are much more important battles to fight. Look at the bright side, smokers are flooding tax dollars into our economy. Just stand upwind.

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          • #35
            Natural tobacco, as has been said, is addictive. It hasn't had its addictiveness enhanced.

            ==============

            The air on this course where I live and golf is not affected much by automotive and industrial pollution (Fukushima aside, for a few half-lives). That is why I am here. Not much but trees upwind for thirty-some miles to the sea. And I will tell you honestly, second-hand cigarette smoke bothers my bronchials from long distances. Herbal smoke does not. Being in a house or car where someone has smoked cigarettes bothers. When I say bothers, I mean from coughing up mucus to extreme discomfort. That's the luck of the draw for me, but you all should know there are some of us who it really hurts. Call bullshit if you want to be that kind if ass.
            The Corporate Empire is NOT a Constitutional Republic...
            ...but it plays one on TV.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Ol' Bob View Post
              Natural tobacco, as has been said, is addictive. It hasn't had its addictiveness enhanced.

              ==============

              When I say bothers, I mean from coughing up mucus to extreme discomfort. That's the luck of the draw for me, but you all should know there are some of us who it really hurts. Call bullshit if you want to be that kind if ass.
              I do smoke, and I only smoke very natural tobacco, with organic unbleached papers. I agree, they are just as addictive, but I guarantee you they are much less harsh to others around. Marlboros, Camels, and everything like them smell like poison at second hand, even to me.

              ==============

              I am by no means trying to call bullshit. The point I am bringing up is that second hand smoke may make existing bronchial conditions flare, but it is highly unlikely that the outdoor second hand smoke of others in your life caused those conditions, compared with other factors.

              This is a tough topic, because obviously things are screwed either way. I think the best thing is for us all to be respectful of one another, however I do lean towards the side of designated smoking areas. I also think smokers should roll their own natural tobacco and stop supporting big tobacco.

              Anyway, last thing I am trying to do here is ruffle any feathers. This topic is way beyond black and white, as are most. But it's always fun to spark discussion.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by HarrisonH View Post
                ... but it is highly unlikely that the outdoor second hand smoke of others in your life caused those conditions, compared with other factors.
                I already covered that my problems probably have most to do with all the cigarettes I smoked many years ago. But now I'm very sensitive to others' smoke and nearly have to run out of a smoke stream. It's that bad at this time of year. Think of burning plastic. When I run my diesel tractor to mow the course, I wear a full industrial type respirator mask. But the truth is, ciggy smoke is worse feeling to my system than the diesel exhaust.

                I'm pretty sure that I could cure that sensitivity by starting to smoke again. I wonder how long my lungs would last if I did that. I have started smoking is self defense years back. But the overall degradation of my feeling of wellbeing forced me to go through withdrawals yet another time. Quitting is tough. After doing it so many times, never again.
                Last edited by Ol' Bob; April 13th, 2011, 11:09 PM.
                The Corporate Empire is NOT a Constitutional Republic...
                ...but it plays one on TV.

                Comment


                • #38
                  http://www.pdga.com/announcements/20...smoking-policy
                  Ratings-based divisions: disc golf's inevitable future.
                  Disc Golf Calendar: www.NWDiscGolf.info, or click CALENDAR at top of page
                  Submit Event to Calendar: treelove@nwdiscgolf.info
                  Team Disc Golf: http://www.teamdiscgolf.com
                  Bitchin' URL: http://www.nwdiscgolf.com

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                  • #39
                    well done, pdga.
                    "'There are two mantras.,' Bernard said, 'Yum and yuk. Mine is yum.'"
                    Tom Robbins, Still Life With Woodpecker

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by emmarose View Post
                      well done, pdga.
                      no, not well done at all. its more like SHAME ON YOU PDGA!!!!! banning usage of illegal substances is totally understandable, but not legal substances. whats next your going to tell me that we have to use a certain hair gel or we all have to use deoderant??!!

                      just one more nail in the coffin of america's so called freedom.
                      Team HOSER:dancing:
                      Team OLY:cheerleader:
                      Team Meteor

                      "Oh man, my burps are giving me whiplash"

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                      • #41
                        We are not free to poison each other. Poison ourselves, maybe. Do you want to be the one who gets to name the poisons and determine the parts per million/billion levels? I think the science is there, and you no longer have that option.

                        Freedom to do what you want with no other considerations simply cannot work. The tobacco lobby doesn't like that. Good luck to your lungs when you're my age. You can be happy, or not, for the industry you helped enrich.

                        I remember when I was in the navy on a diesel submarine with 80 other guys, all lit up, all the time. We would smoke when the air was so depleted of oxygen and loaded with carbon dioxide that fire would only smolder and could not flame. The only way to light up was to use the electric (car type) cigarette lighter in the Control Room, or get a touch off another's burning butt. When we couldn't light a match or a Zippo, we still had to keep getting our fix.

                        When we were outside the "three mile limit," (and tax free) the good folks at the tobacco companies made their product available to us of the GI persuasion at 50 cents a carton. They knew where to invest.
                        Last edited by Ol' Bob; April 14th, 2011, 10:26 AM.
                        The Corporate Empire is NOT a Constitutional Republic...
                        ...but it plays one on TV.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Surely people can wait 2 hours to smoke. You're not going to die if you don't get your precious nicotine in that time.
                          Sometimes my mind boggles. It's so deep my mind actually boggles.

                          ~ Cyndi Lauper ~

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by TYVEK View Post
                            no, not well done at all. its more like SHAME ON YOU PDGA!!!!! banning usage of illegal substances is totally understandable, but not legal substances. whats next your going to tell me that we have to use a certain hair gel or we all have to use deoderant??!!

                            just one more nail in the coffin of america's so called freedom.
                            you think ball players should be able to smoke during their games as well?
                            "'There are two mantras.,' Bernard said, 'Yum and yuk. Mine is yum.'"
                            Tom Robbins, Still Life With Woodpecker

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Some PGA ball golfers DO smoke during PDGA tournament rounds, or at least they did fairly recently. They tend not to show it on TV, but it happens.
                              Last edited by TreeLove; April 14th, 2011, 11:14 AM.
                              Ratings-based divisions: disc golf's inevitable future.
                              Disc Golf Calendar: www.NWDiscGolf.info, or click CALENDAR at top of page
                              Submit Event to Calendar: treelove@nwdiscgolf.info
                              Team Disc Golf: http://www.teamdiscgolf.com
                              Bitchin' URL: http://www.nwdiscgolf.com

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by TreeLove View Post
                                Some PDGA ball golfers DO smoke during PDGA tournament rounds, or at least they did fairly recently. They tend not to show it on TV, but it happens.
                                You meant "PGA," right?
                                The Corporate Empire is NOT a Constitutional Republic...
                                ...but it plays one on TV.

                                Comment

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