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  • #16
    In my experience, competition builds better systems.
    Throw What You Know.
    "Gravity, she's a harsh mistress." -The Tick
    PDGA# 45989

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    • #17
      Great post Todd---the Eugene Celebration has used Todd for a few years. He has gone above and beyond. I've never had a problem. He even started my players list in an excel sheet for me last year.
      I have always been able to call with any problems and Todd fixes them right away.
      PDGA President

      Comment


      • #18
        Thanks Breiner for taking the time to address the issue on our measley NW board, that does indeed mean a lot to the folks and players here.

        I agree that competition for signups ulitmately will benefit the player in the long run. Here's to the best for each of these sign up companies
        Team DISCRAFT
        NW Sign Up
        Gorilla Boy
        Paragon Disc Golf
        Odwalla

        Comment


        • #19
          Just to make sure nobody thinks otherwise; I have never had a problem with the PDGA registration. I have used it before and I would use it again.

          I don’t think anything “wrong” has been done, but I don’t like the fact that I no longer get to put an online reg icon next to the events on the PDGA schedule.

          Breiner, you are very well spoken. I’d say that in general, your statements are also productive. Thank you for your professionalism.

          I embrace competition and I, in no way, want to discredit any other online reg provider out there, including the PDGA’s.

          Mike Rideout
          WA ST Approved PDGA Schedule


          4DiscGolf - a tournament directors best friend!!!

          Tournament Directors - register your event HERE

          Comment


          • #20
            Pay pal vs these others providers

            Paypal cash in two days directly into my account. A date and time stamp that builds the wait list for me and the fees are $1.50-$2 Definitely a No Brainier
            rewindb.com

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by LJ Jubner View Post
              Pay pal vs these others providers

              Paypal cash in two days directly into my account. A date and time stamp that builds the wait list for me and the fees are $1.50-$2 Definitely a No Brainier
              That's true unless the entry fee is greater than 60 bucks! When you get to the NT or Majors level it is easy 2-3 times that amount.
              PDGA #25296
              Stumptown #34

              Comment


              • #22
                Excellent discussion. But I have a question...

                Is the PDGA sign-up a service provided BY the PDGA with all sign up fees going TO the PDGA or is this Mr. Breiner's business?

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Flash View Post
                  That's true unless the entry fee is greater than 60 bucks! When you get to the NT or Majors level it is easy 2-3 times that amount.
                  It's actually a % of the fees. Even at $100 Paypal is still cheaper and a better paper trail.
                  rewindb.com

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by LJ Jubner View Post
                    Pay pal vs these others providers

                    Paypal cash in two days directly into my account. A date and time stamp that builds the wait list for me and the fees are $1.50-$2 Definitely a No Brainier
                    Don't you mean a No Breiner?
                    Ratings-based divisions: disc golf's inevitable future.
                    Disc Golf Calendar: www.NWDiscGolf.info, or click CALENDAR at top of page
                    Submit Event to Calendar: treelove@nwdiscgolf.info
                    Team Disc Golf: http://www.teamdiscgolf.com
                    Bitchin' URL: http://www.nwdiscgolf.com

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      If this thread stays on topic, I will be happy to answer questions.

                      Ground rules for my participation:

                      1. No post here is intended as advertising against Northwest Sign-Ups -- Just answering questions. Nuff Said.

                      2. Stay on topic. No arguing, complaining, etc.. Start a new thread if you wish to do so. I will not be participating in said thread.

                      3. All statements are MY OPINION -- You don't have to agree with them.

                      Here are answers and opinions to a few of the questions that have been asked...

                      -----

                      @ snap7times Post #14

                      - I am not aware of any specific issue related directly to a company that had a 3rd party link, but the discussion of potential liability did come up in various stages of decision making. Depending on the event, there can be ALOT of money outstanding.

                      -----

                      @ Rebecca Post #17

                      - As a new feature this year, all tournaments larger than really small C-Tiers receive both an email notification, AND all pertinent data in Excel spreadsheet format; formatted to be cut & pasted into the PDGA Electronic TD Report.

                      This is in preparation for a forthcoming feature mentioned below.

                      -----

                      @ Rideout Post #19

                      - The decision to stop allowing 3rd party links was made when the PDGA decided to 'internalize' the signup system to better allow integration with their forthcoming 'Phase 2' of the new PDGA webiste.

                      Among other cool features coming, the biggest will be automatically updating the PDGA Registered Players List for the Tournament Director. While we (Breiner) have this capability now, we are waiting on a PDGA side re-write of the code that handles importing in the PDGA Admin section to allow incremental updates (ie 1 name at a time).

                      As mentioned in the reply to Rebecca above, we have already rolled out the posting of data in an Excel spreadsheet format to help ease the workload on Tournament Directors. In addition to providing information in a data format, the system auto checks PDGA #'s etc.., again saving Tournament Directors time related to tracking down mis-entered info.

                      For larger events (like The Memorial Championships, Beaver State Fling, and those who ASK), we handle the waitlist, track down members that are not current by a posted deadline, track down those who have not taken the Officials Test, etc.. We can handle just about anything if you ask nicely.

                      -----

                      @ LJ Jubner Post #20

                      - Remember, PayPal also charges a per transaction fee (same as other Credit Card providers).
                      - Someone (Tournament Director, Club, etc..) still has to set it up.

                      Assuming the view of 'other' sign up sites as 'competition' to www.pdgasignup.com...

                      True competition will most likely never come from a '3rd Party Site'... there's really not a profit incentive for someone to build a truly competitive site.

                      The actual 'competition' if you look at it that way will most certainly come from Club Websites using a content management system, and a payment service such as PayPal. PayPal, and similar services (Google Checkout, Amazon Payments, etc..) have made it pretty easy for 'anyone' to accept credit cards. The tools for integrating their services are getting better and better each year.

                      The PDGA system will grow; but it will grow because of the SERVICE BEING PROVIDED (ie.. Labor, Features, Tournament Director Tools, etc..)... not just because we can process credit cards.

                      PayPal offers a great service and most certainly should not be discounted. I have PayPal integrated into various shopping carts, and use their services on a daily basis.

                      -----

                      @ Flash Post #21

                      - True. Regardless of which credit card provider you use, they charge a percentage of the transaction, PLUS a per transaction fee, PLUS various penalties for non compliance (such as when a CVV Code is not supplied, a billing Zip Code does not match, etc..). The fees are quite frankly more than a bit ridiculous considering the transactions are completely automated. This is a major reason why there are some serious Credit Card Charge reforms going on in Australia right now (imposing limitations on how much the CC companies can charge merchants).

                      -----

                      @ Altophish Post #22

                      - It's www.pdgasignup.com = their system.

                      We prototyped the system as www.discgolfsignup.com for 3 years prior to the PDGA system [internal] launch.

                      Breiner handles the processing for the PDGA similar to processing memberships, fulfillment, etc...

                      -----

                      @ LJ Jubner Post #23

                      If you like PayPal better, then use PayPal. Use the system or site that best meets your needs.

                      It is absolutely TRUE that you can simply process a credit card payment cheaper; you (as the Tournament Director), still have to handle everything else after that.

                      Depending on the Sign Up service that you use, various aspects of processing are taken care of on your behalf, thus hopefully making your life a bit easier. To provide these services, a portion of the 'Handling Fee' is just that, a 'Service Charge'.

                      Currently, as far as I know, every sign up site passes this 'Handling Fee' on to the Player in the form of a 'Convenience Fee' -- maybe that will change someday under a different model.

                      As an example, an advertising supported model; which is VERY HARD to justify, b/c signing up for an event is a 'destination service' -- People arrive, do what they need to do, and leave. There is almost no way for an advertiser to get any real benefit out of it. Tournament Directors are all too familiar with this model. There are certainly some very good hearted 'sponsors' out there, but most of the time, they are just that -- good hearted.

                      -----

                      Breiner
                      1-888-596-9347

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by breiner View Post
                        If this thread stays on topic, I will be happy to answer questions.

                        Ground rules for my participation:

                        1. No post here is intended as advertising against Northwest Sign-Ups -- Just answering questions. Nuff Said.

                        2. Stay on topic. No arguing, complaining, etc.. Start a new thread if you wish to do so. I will not be participating in said thread.

                        3. All statements are MY OPINION -- You don't have to agree with them.

                        Here are answers and opinions to a few of the questions that have been asked...

                        @ LJ Jubner Post #20

                        - Remember, PayPal also charges a per transaction fee (same as other Credit Card providers).
                        - Someone (Tournament Director, Club, etc..) still has to set it up.

                        Assuming the view of 'other' sign up sites as 'competition' to www.pdgasignup.com...

                        True competition will most likely never come from a '3rd Party Site'... there's really not a profit incentive for someone to build a truly competitive site.

                        The actual 'competition' if you look at it that way will most certainly come from Club Websites using a content management system, and a payment service such as PayPal. PayPal, and similar services (Google Checkout, Amazon Payments, etc..) have made it pretty easy for 'anyone' to accept credit cards. The tools for integrating their services are getting better and better each year.

                        The PDGA system will grow; but it will grow because of the SERVICE BEING PROVIDED (ie.. Labor, Features, Tournament Director Tools, etc..)... not just because we can process credit cards.

                        PayPal offers a great service and most certainly should not be discounted. I have PayPal integrated into various shopping carts, and use their services on a daily basis.

                        -----

                        @ LJ Jubner Post #23

                        If you like PayPal better, then use PayPal. Use the system or site that best meets your needs.

                        It is absolutely TRUE that you can simply process a credit card payment cheaper; you (as the Tournament Director), still have to handle everything else after that.

                        Depending on the Sign Up service that you use, various aspects of processing are taken care of on your behalf, thus hopefully making your life a bit easier. To provide these services, a portion of the 'Handling Fee' is just that, a 'Service Charge'.

                        Currently, as far as I know, every sign up site passes this 'Handling Fee' on to the Player in the form of a 'Convenience Fee' -- maybe that will change someday under a different model.

                        As an example, an advertising supported model; which is VERY HARD to justify, b/c signing up for an event is a 'destination service' -- People arrive, do what they need to do, and leave. There is almost no way for an advertiser to get any real benefit out of it. Tournament Directors are all too familiar with this model. There are certainly some very good hearted 'sponsors' out there, but most of the time, they are just that -- good hearted.

                        -----

                        Breiner
                        1-888-596-9347
                        I am curious
                        Are you an extension of the pDGA or a separate company?
                        If separate how did you acquire the contract with the pDGA?
                        If part of the pDGA doesn't the organization already do what you are doing for a fee?

                        As a 10+ year TD I made the decision to go with (at the time the only way to take online payments) PayPal. I suppose that doing as you stated "everything else" is just part of the TD game. Personally I am use to relying on myself to make sure things get done. Yes, I do realize growing pains are bound to occur but I personally don't think I should add $3+ to a players entry fee for the convenience of all that you offer and that I am willing to perform as you so aptly put it as good hearted.

                        Side note Good luck with the thin skinned rules you hope to use. As a TD I would hope that If I chose to use your service your actual site feedback is less confrontational. After all If you piss them off they don't attend my event.
                        rewindb.com

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          I used to use Marshall Street online registration rather than PDGA. After many ignored phone calls, receiving sign-ups that were 6-7 days old and having to wait for my money I eventually went to PDGA Sign-Up. I have not had a problem with my on-line registration since that fateful day. Todd has always been there when I've called him. Made changes when "I" needed them made, and most important always been on time concerning the check.

                          You can say what you want, but as a five year TD, I'll put my money on PDGA SIGN-UP every time.
                          Fly free and straight to the pin!

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Thanks for the answer and the work you've done on the system.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Interesting posts.
                              I wonder if JJ will get an answer on whether Breiner is speaking for the PDGA (I hope the PDGA doesn't condone addressing their "owners" in such a fashion) and whether the registration system is the PDGA's or Breiner's.
                              Makes a HUGE difference IMO.
                              If the current system is "outsourced" to Breiner, then I too would be interested in how the process worked determining his receiving the contract.
                              Based on one post alone I'd be inclined to support Rideout's system.
                              Hopefully, I posted this without breaking Breiner's rules of this thread!

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                @ LJ Jubner Post #26 | @ Wes Hansen Post #29

                                Previously answered:

                                - Separate company. All statements are MY OPINION.
                                - It's www.pdgasignup.com = their system.

                                - This thread was brought to my attention... I chose to answer a few questions here, as I felt it was inappropriate to answer them on the PDGA forum; as simple questions often turn into unproductive and sometimes destructive threads (especially on an Association website).

                                As an example: The PDGA Discussion thread started with a simple question: 'How do you do this...'; to which a simple answer was given. Then the unproductive and destructive element ensued.

                                I think every member of an association [a member by choice] has a responsibility to put thought into their posts. Every post in theory should be authored assuming a non-member will be reading it.

                                --

                                I filled out the RFP for fulfillment of membership services.

                                --

                                "... and that I am willing to perform as you so aptly put it as good hearted."

                                I believe you have misinterpreted my 'example' in the last two paragraphs.

                                --

                                My 'rules' put forth do not apply to anyone but myself. Read another way, they simply state: *I* have no interest in arguing, defending, bashing, etc. There is no hint of confrontation; non should be inferred.

                                Breiner
                                1-888-596-9347

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